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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 18 2013, 02:22 AM   #316
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
. . .One character I wish they had kept was Suder. He would have been VOY's Garak. . . Such a shame he was killed off, as Brad Dourif was a huge bucket of win for VOY to get. . .
Suder could have been VOY's equivalent of Reginald Barclay without being a nincompoop character. They could have brought him back just once a year, and he could still wind up being the ever spooky guy. If they'd really wanted to give him a big arc finish, they could have had him nearly normalized, then suddenly Borgified, yet still manages to help destroy a cube.
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Old October 18 2013, 05:52 AM   #317
Anwar
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

MacLeod wrote: View Post

But isn't that the point VOY's premise indicates it should be a televised novel (to use your phrase), yet we didn't get that. So it could be said it failed to live upto it's premise.
What about Voyager indicated it'd be a televised Novel? They never stuck around long enough to flesh out any regions, there were no bigger plots beyond "Go home", there was nothing beyond them traveling (and whenever they tried for more they had no positive praise to show for it).

Nothing in there suggests "Televised Novel".
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Old October 18 2013, 05:59 AM   #318
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

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What about Voyager indicated it'd be a televised Novel? They never stuck around long enough to flesh out any regions, there were no bigger plots beyond "Go home", there was nothing beyond them traveling (and whenever they tried for more they had no positive praise to show for it).

Nothing in there suggests "Televised Novel".
Have you read the Voyager Series Bible? Because I have, and the series was originally intended to focus more on the Maquis/Starfleet tensions, the crew's struggles to keep the ship operational, and recurring story arcs such as their encounters with Delta Quadrant species like the Kazon.
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Old October 18 2013, 06:19 AM   #319
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

A series bible isn't the same as the Ten Commandments. It's suggestions for characters, relationships, sets, and possible story ideas. Stephen Edward Poe's A Vision of the Future - Star Trek: Voyager gives a lot of information on the initial development of the show and first season while he hung around the set for several weeks.
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Old October 18 2013, 06:23 AM   #320
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Well, let's be honest here. The Fleet/Maquis tensions were never going to last much more than 1-2 seasons at the very most.

Unless they were crippled, they'd always move past any antagonistic aliens they ran into, so they'd never last either.

As for repairs to the ship, they have replicators and all the energy they'd ever need constantly around them (Suns, Nebulas, Cosmic radiation) to power said Replicators.

None of that screams "TeleNovel" because there's no real plot. There's nothing keeping them around, there's no big adventures, there's no real external plot to drive stories and character development.
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Old October 18 2013, 06:23 AM   #321
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

In Season One they may have attempted to follow that book.

Then the dug a hole, tossed the bible in.

Pissed on it and filled up the hole.

Maquis tensions were resolved by the the second episode.

But what about To Tuvok with Love?

That was because they sucked at their job, not because they were ideologically repulsive.

Imagine if they had left Tuvok to die in that fire?

Wouldn't that have showed janeway what the servant class really thought of her from steerage?

I often wonder if that line in Life Line about Janeway dealing with the Maquis was written by Picardo, or added by the producers when they were shining up his stories and working it into continuity.

And the Doctor was as Human as he was going to get in the Viking episode.

You know what they also said before the show started...

"We have a leading man, a great leading man, a romantic counter part for Janeway, and his name is Tom Paris."

Here's a pdf of the bible.

http://www.google.co.nz/url?q=http:/..._Wo5QTlNzm6b_w
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Old October 18 2013, 06:23 PM   #322
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Well, considering "Threshold" I'd say they did end up doing something with the "Romantic Counterpart for Janeway" thing with Paris...
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Old October 18 2013, 06:50 PM   #323
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Okay. I can see your argument, but, with TNG, I never felt like I was 'missing something' by not having seen every individual 'piece' of the arcs you mentioned, but would feel like I was missing out on important info if I were to have seen, say, Faces without having seen Phage, or Deadlock without having seen Elogium, Tattoo, and Dreadnought.
I suppose I just don't see the difference between the two series. "I, Borg" contains all the information you need without having to have seen "The Best of Both Worlds" or "Family," but it doesn't hurt to have experienced that backstory. Sito Jaxa's death in "Lower Decks" doesn't require you to have seen "The First Duty" for it to have an impact -- but I think the added history helps.

I see Star Trek: Voyager the same way. "Faces" doesn't need you to have seen "Phage" (actually, thinking about it, I'd say that backstory is even less essential than the TNG episodes in my comparison). Having met Peter Durst in "Cathexis" makes him feel more like a member of the crew in "Faces," rather than just anther red (or yellow) shirt, but it's not essential backstory.

They just seem the same to me -- and, actually, having reflected upon these examples, Voyager appears to be the shallower series.
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Old October 19 2013, 01:53 AM   #324
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

My first thought when I read the thread title is that my viewing of Voyager at the time was sporadic for various reasons, not least that the local tv station with the rights was dragging their heels a few seasons behind, and showing them in a after-midnight slot to boot, so my primary way of seeing it was in fits and starts whenever a new VHS tape turned up at the local Blockbuster, which in itself was infrequent.

But my point is, even then, it struck me how serialized it felt to me in terms of character progression. I remember coming onto a forum and gushing quite a lot about how impressed I was with the Hirogen arc in particular. Although I now know it only lasted for about six episodes in total, at the time I think I only got to see a few of them at a time over the course of maybe six months or something, so the whole thing actually felt pretty damn epic to me at the time.

Same with Be'lanna/Tom romance. I really liked the way it developed. Felt like a proper arc to me.

(Not so much Seven/Chuckles, but hey ho, you can't have everything with cream on it.)
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Old October 19 2013, 07:15 AM   #325
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

The whole Starfleet/Maquis conflict should have been the arc for the first season, that by the end of the season they become a family and whatever major issues were between them had dissipated after successfully evading the Kazon once and for all.
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Old October 19 2013, 07:27 AM   #326
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

So if I hunted some of you for months, then tried to kill you all repeatedly, you'd all be perfectly fine cohabitating with me in an oversized RV and cleaning my laundry and serving my food?
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Old October 19 2013, 08:50 AM   #327
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Doesn't that describe some of these threads?
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Old October 19 2013, 09:49 AM   #328
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I keep my annoyingness confined to a couple key threads.

You couldn't even begin to understand the freedom I afford y'all.
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Old October 20 2013, 05:21 AM   #329
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
So if I hunted some of you for months, then tried to kill you all repeatedly, you'd all be perfectly fine cohabitating with me in an oversized RV and cleaning my laundry and serving my food?
The Maquis and Feds were not diehard enemies, the Maquis and Cardassians were. The Feds didn't go out of their way to kill the Maquis nor did the Maquis feel that way to the Feds. There was some conflict, but not a real hatred.

It wouldn't have made sense for them to remain adversarial for more than a year or so. After that, if they couldn't learn to work together they'd be dead meat. They'd all realize this.
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Old October 20 2013, 05:44 AM   #330
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

What do you think that tricobolt device was for?

That weapon was mission specific.

Janeway was going to destroy Chakotay's base/moon/planet and howsomany other ships and soldiers attached to that site numbering possibly into the thousands.

And who knows how many Maquis were going to be planet bound when she struck?

becuase she barely had room for the 20 prisoners she took.

It's like asking what chance the Enola Gay would have had of subduing Hiroshima with conventional weapons?
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