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Old October 10 2013, 12:10 AM   #166
Balrog
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Let's look at it fourth dimensionally:

If there was a spark of a possible relationship between Uhura and Spock in the Prime Universe that, ultimately, went nowhere, why not explore the possibility of a relationship budding in this New Universe given the changes in Spock's family dynamic, relationship with his father and his own counsel with his future self.

IOW, in the Prime Universe Spock had too big a stick up his ass to go after Uhura. In the New Verse, he gave himself a rectal stickectomy.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:52 AM   #167
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

And, you know, we've never actually seen Spock in a long-term relationship before. Or Uhura in a relationship at all. So this is all virgin territory (no pun intended).

Which is all part of the fun of starting over again from scratch . . . .
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Old October 10 2013, 01:33 AM   #168
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:01 AM   #169
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Timewalker wrote: View Post
If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else...
Uhm, no...

He wasn't embarrassed about the topic of sex, he was embarrassed to let Kirk know that Vulcan's, who take pride in their logic and emotional control,have to "swim upstream" every seven years to mate, like animals.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:20 AM   #170
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Oh god, yes. That was cringe-inducing . . . ..
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Old October 10 2013, 02:53 AM   #171
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Back on topic, I thought of another one - the away team's insertion in Cold Equations: The Persistence of Memory was a hybrid of probe-riding from TNG: "Emissary" and space-jumping from ST'09.
Does orbital skydiving really count as an Abrams thing though? After all, Trek first attempted it in Generations and it was featured as a holographic simulation in a Voyager episode. Trek XI may be the first time it's properly shown, but it's not the first to introduce the concept.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:02 AM   #172
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

nightwind1 wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else...
Uhm, no...

He wasn't embarrassed about the topic of sex, he was embarrassed to let Kirk know that Vulcan's, who take pride in their logic and emotional control,have to "swim upstream" every seven years to mate, like animals.
Beat me too it. I always saw it as Spock basically being embarrassed at the loss of self control.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:33 AM   #173
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
nightwind1 wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else...
Uhm, no...

He wasn't embarrassed about the topic of sex, he was embarrassed to let Kirk know that Vulcan's, who take pride in their logic and emotional control,have to "swim upstream" every seven years to mate, like animals.
Beat me too it. I always saw it as Spock basically being embarrassed at the loss of self control.
Exactly.

Plus, Spock (as far as we know ) wasn't in a romantic relationship with Kirk, and nor was he in one with Chapel. There is absolutely no reason to assume that Spock (whether prime or nu) would treat a romantic partner the way he treated Kirk or Chapel.

On the other hand, Amok Time (yeah, I've seen that episode at least 20 times, by the way) quite plainly suggests that Spock might well have accepted a bowl of soup under such circumstances from someone who was his (cf. "It is undignified for a woman to play servant to a man who is not hers.").

Heck, if we are going to accept all of TOS as being in-continuity, then we just need to fast-forward to The Cloud Minders (full disclosure: I've seen that episode over a dozen times), to see what sorts of details Spock is willing to discuss with works of art... err... prospective romantic partners.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:45 PM   #174
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Where do you think Captain Tryla Scott came from?
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Old October 10 2013, 01:33 PM   #175
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Balrog wrote: View Post
Let's look at it fourth dimensionally:

If there was a spark of a possible relationship between Uhura and Spock in the Prime Universe that, ultimately, went nowhere, why not explore the possibility of a relationship budding in this New Universe given the changes in Spock's family dynamic, relationship with his father and his own counsel with his future self.

IOW, in the Prime Universe Spock had too big a stick up his ass to go after Uhura. In the New Verse, he gave himself a rectal stickectomy.
Or to put it another way, in TOS the two met at an older age, both more mature and thinking like officers so what ever spark there may have been was kept in check.

In Nu, they met with Uhura as a cadet and Spock not long graduated, at an age much more likely to go "well let's see what happens"
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Old October 10 2013, 01:50 PM   #176
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

NightJim wrote: View Post
Balrog wrote: View Post
Let's look at it fourth dimensionally:

If there was a spark of a possible relationship between Uhura and Spock in the Prime Universe that, ultimately, went nowhere, why not explore the possibility of a relationship budding in this New Universe given the changes in Spock's family dynamic, relationship with his father and his own counsel with his future self.

IOW, in the Prime Universe Spock had too big a stick up his ass to go after Uhura. In the New Verse, he gave himself a rectal stickectomy.
Or to put it another way, in TOS the two met at an older age, both more mature and thinking like officers so what ever spark there may have been was kept in check.

In Nu, they met with Uhura as a cadet and Spock not long graduated, at an age much more likely to go "well let's see what happens"
You guys have pretty much hit the nail on the head. The fans who are screaming "but it didn't happen that way!" are just not seeing that the potential was there.

Ultimately, the Spock-Uhura romance and Kirk-McCoy friendship are the only actual relationships we've seen developed on screen in NuTrek. We're told repeatedly in Into Darkness that Kirk and Spock are now best friends (did I imagine hearing a line like "closest thing to a brother"? I may have) but we don't see that camaraderie between them. Throughout the film, their relationship is purely antagonistic until Kirk's sacrifice and Spock's sudden outpouring of emotion. Which is why that felt hollow to me, because we've been told we should feel a certain way about them, without any text, subtext or chemistry to back it up. The whole film excelled at "telling, not showing," which is IMO, the number one boo-boo on a writer's list of how to screw up a story. The other thing it excelled at was doing something "because it looks cool" and not because it makes any kind of sense.

I've been hoping that we would get some novels set in the new reality that could go a ways towards redeeming it with good characterization and an understanding of how to craft a plot.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:59 PM   #177
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

^They bickered like an old married couple, which more than sold me on their friendship.
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Back on topic, I thought of another one - the away team's insertion in Cold Equations: The Persistence of Memory was a hybrid of probe-riding from TNG: "Emissary" and space-jumping from ST'09.
Does orbital skydiving really count as an Abrams thing though? After all, Trek first attempted it in Generations and it was featured as a holographic simulation in a Voyager episode. Trek XI may be the first time it's properly shown, but it's not the first to introduce the concept.
Good points, I'd forgotten about those. So perhaps, like Captain's Peril, it only seems like a movie reference.
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Where do you think Captain Tryla Scott came from?
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Old October 10 2013, 11:12 PM   #178
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Yeah, that one's always been random. I've never understood what point it served in the movie. Especially since it was never mentioned before or after.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:13 PM   #179
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

JD wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Yeah, that one's always been random. I've never understood what point it served in the movie. Especially since it was never mentioned before or after.
Near as I can figure? Something to give the characters more screen time.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:24 PM   #180
Greg Cox
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura are a far more likely couple than Scotty/Uhura from The Final Frontier.
Yeah, that one's always been random. I've never understood what point it served in the movie. Especially since it was never mentioned before or after.
Near as I can figure? Something to give the characters more screen time.
I recently re-read the novelization by J.M. Dillard, who had the thankless task of making this scene semi-plausible. She basically takes the tack that Uhura, who is under Sybok's influence at the time, is not exactly herself when she comes on to Scotty.

Not sure that was the original intent in the movie, but it works in the book, more or less.
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