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Old October 1 2013, 08:27 AM   #121
IndyJones
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

R. Star wrote: View Post
I'll pay my $95 fine every year. It's cheaper than something I don't want.
As has been mentioned. It's only $95 this year, and it will increase quickly.

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Why, in this country, must everyone have health insurance whether they like it or not?
In addition to the cost factors mentioned by others, if you're sick and it goes untreated, then there's a greater possibility of me catching your illness. That's your health care choice affecting me.

Additionally, sick workers are less productive workers. A less productive workforce means businesses won't do as well, and the government won't collect as many taxes. Again, that's your choice having an impact on all of us.

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Old October 1 2013, 12:15 PM   #122
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Manticore wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
While I agree not having health insurance is stupid, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to choose if they want it or not and not have to be told "Get Health Insurance or else...". Aren't people old enough to make their own choices and live with their own consequences? Why, in this country, must everyone have health insurance whether they like it or not?
Because not having health insurance, just like not having car insurance, drives up costs for everyone else. Hospitals can't turn you away just because you don't have health insurance, so they pass the costs on to those who do. Similarly, if you don't have car insurance and you crash into someone, they still have to pay for it - and they can't rely on your insurance to help cover it either. So their rates go up even more.
Bingo! I'm tired of people saying "I don't need insurance." Yes, you do. You might not need it right now, but you're almost certain to need it eventually, and what are you going to do then? You're uninsured and now you've racked up thousands of dollars in bills--maybe more. Are you ever going to pay it? Probably not. That means everyone else has to. So, you know, thanks for that.

That's what the penalty is for, to defray the costs of free riders.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:44 PM   #123
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

^However for some it is a hard concept to grasp. You buy insurance incase of the day you need it. That's why it's called insurance. Take car insurance for example, most peoples premiums are higher in the UK it adds around £33 to premiums

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...d-drivers.html

Now £33 is not even enough for a full tank of petrol these days, but it's £33 that should be in my pocket.

As for countries which have Universal Health Care, everyone pays into the pot i.e. via general taxation. Yes you might not need it today, but similar to insurance it's there when you do need it.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:44 PM   #124
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

That's why there are fines for opting out, which get worse every year you do it. Because when you opt out, and then get hit by a bus, you (for some reason) still expect 911 to send an ambulance, and for the doctors to try and save your mooching life. And you don't have any intention (or ability, really, given how stupid the costs are) of paying for THAT, either. And it's hardly fair for me to have to pay my insurance and then cover YOU as well because you decided to pass, but still want the benefits.

Needs to be that understanding that if you opt out, you're REALLY opting out. And then you can choose either side. But don't call for help or show up in a hospital without a sack of cash to pay in full, upfront.

Or just contribute to society like everyone else?
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Old October 1 2013, 12:48 PM   #125
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Scout101 wrote: View Post
That's why there are fines for opting out, which get worse every year you do it. Because when you opt out, and then get hit by a bus, you (for some reason) still expect 911 to send an ambulance, and for the doctors to try and save your mooching life. And you don't have any intention (or ability, really, given how stupid the costs are) of paying for THAT, either. And it's hardly fair for me to have to pay my insurance and then cover YOU as well because you decided to pass, but still want the benefits.

Needs to be that understanding that if you opt out, you're REALLY opting out. And then you can choose either side. But don't call for help or show up in a hospital without a sack of cash to pay in full, upfront.

Or just contribute to society like everyone else?
Right, and opting out is unworkable because there's just no way someone's going to dial 911 and then have the ambulance show up and check you for your "member of society in good standing card."

"Oop, this guy doesn't have the card. Guess he's not insured. We'll just leave him here to bleed out."

It's just not going to work that way, nor should it. You don't get to opt out of society. So, you're going to pay the admission fee, one way or another.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:59 PM   #126
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
While I agree not having health insurance is stupid, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to choose if they want it or not and not have to be told "Get Health Insurance or else...". Aren't people old enough to make their own choices and live with their own consequences? Why, in this country, must everyone have health insurance whether they like it or not?
You do have a choice. However, that choice comes with the responsibility of paying to offset your impact of not having insurance. The amount you have to pay for not having insurance (under the current law) will never exceed the cost of insurance and can only be garnished from a tax rebate. Given the many, many, many thousands of dollars more everyone else pays for those who are uninsured and get medical help (which they generally can't afford to pay), it's a relatively minor cost to offset. You do have that choice.

Although there are many areas where, as an American, you do not have a choice. You have to register for the selective service. If you are in a farming business, there are caps for how much you can grow, every state requires you to buy car insurance, every state but one requires you to wear a seatbelt. We do live in a country of laws and regulations that limit choice in the name of public health and safety.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:28 PM   #127
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Sorry, foreign devil here, about to ask a possibly stupid question.

So, people are worried they are going to pay more individual tax to cover this new healthcare scheme, right? And they'll be covered by it, yes? And their employer will not have to pay their health care any more, okay? And if the employer then gave that money to the employee as part of their wage package, then the employer doesn't gain or lose, the employee doesn't gain or lose, and a large pool of money is created to help EVERYONE. True? or am I missing something? At this point the only people missing out are Big Medicine types.

Now, some say, "ooo, I don't want the gubmint probing into my life an knowing so much about meeeee!" Wake up and smell the coffee - they already know fucktons (or if you're metric, fucktonnes) about you, and can find out ANYTHING ANYTIME they want! (note: where is your concern about the survelliance started under Bush?) You may be worried someone will find about that embarrassing itch or the wound obtained illegally, but I'm pretty sure someone already knows - we don't keep paper records any more.

Now... give me a reason why that wouldn't work. I'm quite willing to believe there is one, but I want it explained concisely.
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Old October 1 2013, 02:10 PM   #128
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Australis wrote: View Post
Sorry, foreign devil here, about to ask a possibly stupid question.

So, people are worried they are going to pay more individual tax to cover this new healthcare scheme, right? And they'll be covered by it, yes? And their employer will not have to pay their health care any more, okay? And if the employer then gave that money to the employee as part of their wage package, then the employer doesn't gain or lose, the employee doesn't gain or lose, and a large pool of money is created to help EVERYONE. True? or am I missing something? At this point the only people missing out are Big Medicine types.
Not exactly. The law says you must purchase health insurance, one way or another. That means through your employer, through one of the new exchanges, or from a private insurer--it's up to you. If you don't, you have to pay a tax penalty, but you are not covered in this instance. The penalty is meant to make up for the fact that you aren't contributing to the insurance market.

Big Medicine doesn't lose out at all, though.

Now, some say, "ooo, I don't want the gubmint probing into my life an knowing so much about meeeee!" Wake up and smell the coffee - they already know fucktons (or if you're metric, fucktonnes) about you, and can find out ANYTHING ANYTIME they want! (note: where is your concern about the survelliance started under Bush?) You may be worried someone will find about that embarrassing itch or the wound obtained illegally, but I'm pretty sure someone already knows - we don't keep paper records any more.
I don't think people have too much to fear with their medical information being abused. The HIPAA and HITECH laws offer considerable protections and substantial penalties.

Now... give me a reason why that wouldn't work. I'm quite willing to believe there is one, but I want it explained concisely.
"Work" is in the eye of the beholder. The goal is to make insurance more affordable and accessible, which I believe it is accomplishing. Long-term, the stronger focus on preventive care and chronic disease management should help reduce costs, although additional legislation is probably needed to control costs more generally, because there is no price transparency for medical services today, and if I explained to you how insurance billing works you'd probably cry yourself to sleep.
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Old October 1 2013, 04:56 PM   #129
C. Cole-Chakotay
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I plan on checking it out. I've been to the sign up site, but it's so busy today I can't even set up an account. I think I'll wait a couple of weeks.
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Old October 1 2013, 05:24 PM   #130
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yeah, the federal site is having some opening-day glitches. Shocker. Seems the first live day of any major online project can never go smoothly.
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Old October 1 2013, 05:29 PM   #131
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Has the shutdown had any effect?
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Old October 1 2013, 05:35 PM   #132
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Has the shutdown had any effect?
On the rollout? Probably not. Obamacare (and it's rollout) were already funded.
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Old October 1 2013, 05:40 PM   #133
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Marc wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Hopefully this horrible horrible policy will be blocked and eventually stopped from every happening. Absolute terrible entitlement that will have a significant role in crippling this country.

Make no mistake, this will help lead towards a worse future for Americans and humankind.
And millions being denied coverage isn't heading towards the worst possible future?

How about situations where health insurers retroactively cancel an insurance policy after the surgery has taken place leaving the patient out of pocket (As one poster on this board can attest).

Maybe you should do some reading before you post again becasue there are millions in Canada, the U.K, Australia, Scandinavia etc etc who have universal health coverage and guess what - we're not suffering for it and we have a lot better health than many many many Americans.
You cannot compare smaller populations and economies to the 300,000,000 living in US.

I realize this board is extremely liberal, but this idea of entitlements and everyone should have equal healthcare is a poor model for US economy.


It will drastically reduce the quality of healthcare in the US. It will be a huge hindrance on this country's economy. Slowly the US is not becoming the best place to work and live for the brightest and most motivated of humankind.

Once the US goes down, it's bad for the planet, and it's bad for humankind.


It's gonna cripple the US, but hey, at least yall get your terrible bottom of the barrel government provided healthcare.
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Old October 1 2013, 05:42 PM   #134
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Hopefully this horrible horrible policy will be blocked and eventually stopped from every happening. Absolute terrible entitlement that will have a significant role in crippling this country.

Make no mistake, this will help lead towards a worse future for Americans and humankind.
Remember, kids, when you need it, "you earned it."
When someone else needs it, it's "entitlement."

Goddamn sick kids and their need to live. You're right, Alex, those poor kids who died from easily preventable illnesses were spoiled rotten, thinking they had the right to proper healthcare in one of the richest nations in the world.

Don't worry. When your kind is done with the US it will be a shithole and 3rd world country. Then we can all be sick, poor, and jobless together.


But hey, then we'll all be equals right!
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Old October 1 2013, 05:45 PM   #135
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
You guys are so funny. Also, if you are gonna write such silly things, please drop the iguana avatar. It's embarrassing.
I am keeping the avatar.

But I know what you mean. When I read posts here, I always walk away laughing at how dumb people can be and how little people realize how the world works. It really is comical. We should all have free healthcare and free houses and free food!


When it all goes to shit, look at those that are jealous of what others have accomplished and earned. You and they are to blame.
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