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Old October 11 2013, 02:13 AM   #571
Davros
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, considering its my family that gets benefits (I get none personally) I don't want anything more from the government because all I get is just the result of living with my family, and I've never asked for more.
Count yourself lucky you get what you do. If you keep voting for Republicans you will likely lose it.

I just don't want to Obamacare mandate.
Then you are just S.O.L. then because you have it and it's constitutional.

I'm sure there are parts of it that are helpful to people, its just nothing but bad for me.
What is bad in it for you? Taking responsibility for yourself?

Also, I couldn't care less that I "disgust" you. Anyone who goes around calling people man-children and rant about how I'm "spoiled, selfish and greedy" are just too melodramatic for me to take seriously.
Just don't expect any sympathy from us when you make complaining posts.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:14 AM   #572
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I've nothing beyond a high school education either but I make far more than minimum wage, have a full-time job, and am in management. I also live comfortably on my own and am not a burden on my retired parents living on a limited income.

Be an adult and get a job. I'm not sure what "drawbacks" you think that there are other than having to do something for someone else and being "on the grid", I guess as far as the government is concerned. But at the very least you'd be less of a burden on your financially strapped parents and if you do not wish to live on your own you can help them run the home and maybe even getting into a better living environment.

But to not get a job just because "I don't wanna," well, that's the sort of thing that gives the various social safety nets we have a bad rep. They should be there for people who are unable to work for various reasons. Not for people who just decide they don't want to work and still live off the government teat.

And, yeah, I'd say if you're middle aged and getting your first job, ever, you're less employable than a teenager or young person getting THEIR first job. If I'm looking at two applicants and one is a 20-something "kid" getting their first job just now out of school and can't get into their field or need to be a bread winner for their parents they look better than a middle-aged man getting his first job.

The former I go, "Well, he's a kid there could be potential here. Nothing here worries me." The guy I go, "Okay, what's this guy been doing with the last 20 years of his life that he's just NOW getting a job?! Is he going to be able to take orders? Deal with my decisions and scheduling? Is he even going to be able to learn procedure?"
The drawbacks would be taxes (my most dreaded thing about having a job, a bunch of indecipherable math and record keeping that if you get wrong means the government does bad things to you), all the various things you have to do/pay for once you get a job, especially if you have to live on your own, which is just too horrible for me to even think of from a personal perspective, the work itself. Whenever I get a job, it will just be the start of a horrible life working hard for a small amount of money that will most likely barely cover whatever expenses I'm forced to pay. Making money is far from enough incentive for me to want to start what is going to be probably 40+ years of nothing but drudgery. In a very real way its the beginning of the end of my life. Once it starts, my life will be nothing but horrible, so I'd prefer to delay it as long as possible.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I just don't want to Obamacare mandate. I'm sure there are parts of it that are helpful to people, its just nothing but bad for me.

So you admit that there are parts of it that are helpful to people but since you don't think it'll work for YOU you want it to be gone.

Nice.

Why shouldn't I want something that will hurt me gone? All I know about Obamacare is that it will penalize me for not having money. I don't know if the other parts help people, but the mandate alone makes it something I don't want. We've been doing just fine without it so far, so its only going to cause me pain and not give me a benefit.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:17 AM   #573
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I get no joy from working.
Neither do I. What I do get joy from is a sense of having accoplished something.

Also, I'll never have a job outside of minimum wage work at a fast food place or (maybe if I'm really lucky) a grocery store.
Only if you insist on that.

I'm a high school graduate with no real skills outside of just things anyone can do. No job Ill ever get is going to require having much work experience.
Getting a job is a sure way to gain said experience. That's how I did it. Now I get paid the listen to music and surf the internet.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:21 AM   #574
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The drawbacks would be taxes (my most dreaded thing about having a job, a bunch of indecipherable math and record keeping that if you get wrong means the government does bad things to you),
If you got a job you'd be short-form with a standard deduction. It's very, very easy taxes to fill out that you can do yourself on-line and more-than-likely will get you a return if you don't claim any dependents.

...all the various things you have to do/pay for once you get a job, especially if you have to live on your own, which is just too horrible for me to even think of from a personal perspective, the work itself.
The only "various things" you have to pay for when you have a job are work clothes and transportation. If you don't want to live on your own that's your choice and fine.

Whenever I get a job, it will just be the start of a horrible life working hard for a small amount of money that will most likely barely cover whatever expenses I'm forced to pay. Making money is far from enough incentive for me to want to start what is going to be probably 40+ years of nothing but drudgery. In a very real way its the beginning of the end of my life. Once it starts, my life will be nothing but horrible, so I'd prefer to delay it as long as possible.
Tough, welcome to the real world and what people have had to deal with since the birth of civilization. With a job you'd have MORE of a life since you'd have money to buy and do things with. Rather than whatever it is you're doing now.

Why shouldn't I want something that will hurt me gone? All I know about Obamacare is that it will penalize me for not having money. I don't know if the other parts help people, but the mandate alone makes it something I don't want. We've been doing just fine without it so far, so its only going to cause me pain and not give me a benefit.
If you have no income then you're not going to be penalized, there's concessions for such people (there aren't millions of homeless people shuffling around the streets that the government is going to try and get money from) and there's Medicaid. And we've not been doing "just fine" without it so far, that's the whole point of it needing to be put in place! People go bankrupt from medical bills when they don't have insurance. And THAT's the benefit for you that if you get sick or injured there's a system in place (medical insurance) to make sure the bills are payed and to give you better avenues for advanced care.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:23 AM   #575
Davros
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Why shouldn't I want something that will hurt me gone?
You have yet to demonstrate any harm you would suffer.

All I know about Obamacare is that it will penalize me for not having money.
If you have no money you qualify for medicaid and will face no penalty.

I don't know if the other parts help people, but the mandate alone makes it something I don't want.
Personally I would have rather had single payer or a public option, but the mandate is what we have. It's law, it's constitutional, and it isn't going away anytime soon.

We've been doing just fine without it so far, so its only going to cause me pain and not give me a benefit.
Still waiting for any evidence of this pain and not understanding how access to health care isn't a benefit.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:26 AM   #576
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Davros wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I get no joy from working.
Neither do I. What I do get joy from is a sense of having accoplished something.

Also, I'll never have a job outside of minimum wage work at a fast food place or (maybe if I'm really lucky) a grocery store.
Only if you insist on that.

I'm a high school graduate with no real skills outside of just things anyone can do. No job Ill ever get is going to require having much work experience.
Getting a job is a sure way to gain said experience. That's how I did it. Now I get paid the listen to music and surf the internet.
I don't consider working to be accomplishing anything than just paying the next bill you have or making sure you have basic human needs. not exactly a goal I'm looking forward to.

As for the job, I will never have anything higher than the average minimum wage stuff. Unskilled workers don't get good jobs. They get jobs at McDonald's or (if you're lucky) Safeway or Wal-Mart. Thats all I have to look forward to, and I'm in no rush to get to it.

Davros wrote: View Post
I'm sure there are parts of it that are helpful to people, its just nothing but bad for me.
What is bad in it for you?


Also, I couldn't care less that I "disgust" you. Anyone who goes around calling people man-children and rant about how I'm "spoiled, selfish and greedy" are just too melodramatic for me to take seriously.
Just don't expect any sympathy from us when you make complaining posts.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I was just posting about the topic, and how much I hate it.


As I've said, whats bad about it for me is getting taxed for doing nothing more than living and getting no benefit from it. It's like if I suddenly had to get car insurance even though I've never learned how to drive, and so obviously don't have a car.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The drawbacks would be taxes (my most dreaded thing about having a job, a bunch of indecipherable math and record keeping that if you get wrong means the government does bad things to you),

If you got a job you'd be short-form with a standard deduction. It's very, very easy taxes to fill out that you can do yourself on-line and more-than-likely will get you a return if you don't claim any dependents.


...all the various things you have to do/pay for once you get a job, especially if you have to live on your own, which is just too horrible for me to even think of from a personal perspective, the work itself.

The only "various things" you have to pay for when you have a job are work clothes and transportation. If you don't want to live on your own that's your choice and fine.


Whenever I get a job, it will just be the start of a horrible life working hard for a small amount of money that will most likely barely cover whatever expenses I'm forced to pay. Making money is far from enough incentive for me to want to start what is going to be probably 40+ years of nothing but drudgery. In a very real way its the beginning of the end of my life. Once it starts, my life will be nothing but horrible, so I'd prefer to delay it as long as possible.

Tough, welcome to the real world and what people have had to deal with since the birth of civilization. With a job you'd have MORE of a life since you'd have money to buy and do things with. Rather than whatever it is you're doing now.

I know its "the real world" and that I'll have to get a job eventually. I also know that I'll die someday, but that doesn't mean I'm going to jump off of a cliff.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:28 AM   #577
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Essentially, "I don't like Obamacare because I think it's going to make me get a job and quit mooching off of my parents".

How exactly do you plan on paying for the expense if you have a major medical problem?

I'd be furious if one of my kids tried pulling what you're pulling.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:32 AM   #578
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Davros wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Why shouldn't I want something that will hurt me gone?
You have yet to demonstrate any harm you would suffer.

All I know about Obamacare is that it will penalize me for not having money.
If you have no money you qualify for medicaid and will face no penalty.

I don't know if the other parts help people, but the mandate alone makes it something I don't want.
Personally I would have rather had single payer or a public option, but the mandate is what we have. It's law, it's constitutional, and it isn't going away anytime soon.

We've been doing just fine without it so far, so its only going to cause me pain and not give me a benefit.
Still waiting for any evidence of this pain and not understanding how access to health care isn't a benefit.
It will hurt me because I will get a monetary penalty for not having health insurance. Thats fairly painful. I'm sure Obamacare is going to screw me over badly. If my life isn't getting destroyed by the government with penalties in 5 years I'll consider myself lucky, and I don't think my luck is that good.

Also, Obama won't be president forever, and there will someday be a Republican president (or republican dominated congress) again. Laws can be changed, and Obamacare, regardless of its constitutionality, can be repealed.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Essentially, "I don't like Obamacare because I think it's going to make me get a job and quit mooching off of my parents".

How exactly do you plan on paying for the expense if you have a major medical problem?

I've never had a bmajor medical problem (I haven't seen a doctor since I was ten or eleven). The chances that I do are not something that worries me. If I do, I'll be too screwed anyway to worry about how badly I'll be ruined from a money standpoint if I don't have insurance.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:32 AM   #579
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
snip
[long tirade of profanity filled insults that would result in warning or ban outside on TNZ]
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Old October 11 2013, 02:33 AM   #580
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

As for the job, I will never have anything higher than the average minimum wage stuff. Unskilled workers don't get good jobs. They get jobs at McDonald's or (if you're lucky) Safeway or Wal-Mart. Thats all I have to look forward to, and I'm in no rush to get to it.
With that sort of attitude you're probably not far off. Not because that's how it is but because people unmotivated to work don't stand out and don't get advanced. Go in, start at minimum wage, work your ass off, impress the boss and get a raise. Continue to impress, get full-time coming with it a large raise and benefits.

Good grief, this is how society has operated for eons and it's literally what EVERYONE does. Do you think I want to do it? Do you think I want to wake up at 5AM every day and go to work for nine hours? I'd much rather sit at home and do nothing. But I also want to have possessions, personal freedom and privacy and respect for myself. So I have a job and live on my own. Yeah bills suck, but at the end of the bills I've got plenty of money left over to spend for entertainment and enjoyment. I'm not working "just to live" I'm working to live and to LIVE. I took a trip to Nashville this summer to see a live-show of the Rifftrax crew. Awesome, great, time that cost me somewhere around $600 between airfare, hotel, rental car and other expenses. Not something one can do without an income.

I've never had a bmajor medical problem ....
Same for me! Went my whole life without any major medical problems until I got to 32 and started having mild seizures and brain tumor was found in me. Luckily I had insurance that covered the tests and biopsy that would've cost 10s of 1000s of dollars to do had I not had insurance. And when I elect to have the surgery to remove the non-cancerous growth I'll have insurance to cover THAT insanely expensive procedure. Just because you've "never been sick" doesn't mean you never will get sick or that nothing will ever happen. You could slip on some ice this winter and break your arm. That alone can cost 1000s of dollars to fix.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:36 AM   #581
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 you do know that you could go back to school to increase your earning power?
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Old October 11 2013, 02:42 AM   #582
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

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kirk55555 you do know that you could go back to school to increase your earning power?
I have no money for school. I was only a C student at anything not involving computers when I was in school, and even if I could afford the local community college, there is nothing there that I'd be good enough to learn that I could use anyway.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:44 AM   #583
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
As for the job, I will never have anything higher than the average minimum wage stuff. Unskilled workers don't get good jobs. They get jobs at McDonald's or (if you're lucky) Safeway or Wal-Mart. Thats all I have to look forward to, and I'm in no rush to get to it.
With that sort of attitude you're probably not far off. Not because that's how it is but because people unmotivated to work don't stand out and don't get advanced. Go in, start at minimum wage, work your ass off, impress the boss and get a raise. Continue to impress, get full-time coming with it a large raise and benefits.

Good grief, this is how society has operated for eons and it's literally what EVERYONE does. Do you think I want to do it? Do you think I want to wake up at 5AM every day and go to work for nine hours? I'd much rather sit at home and do nothing. But I also want to have possessions, personal freedom and privacy and respect for myself. So I have a job and live on my own. Yeah bills suck, but at the end of the bills I've got plenty of money left over to spend for entertainment and enjoyment. I'm not working "just to live" I'm working to live and to LIVE. I took a trip to Nashville this summer to see a live-show of the Rifftrax crew. Awesome, great, time that cost me somewhere around $600 between airfare, hotel, rental car and other expenses. Not something one can do without an income.

I've never had a bmajor medical problem ....
Same for me! Went my whole life without any major medical problems until I got to 32 and started having mild seizures and brain tumor was found in me. Luckily I had insurance that covered the tests and biopsy that would've cost 10s of 1000s of dollars to do had I not had insurance. And when I elect to have the surgery to remove the non-cancerous growth I'll have insurance to cover THAT insanely expensive procedure. Just because you've "never been sick" doesn't mean you never will get sick or that nothing will ever happen. You could slip on some ice this winter and break your arm. That alone can cost 1000s of dollars to fix.
I know I can get sick, I just don't think its something thats worth worrying about. If it happens, I'm just more screwed than I already am.

You also don't have to work nine hours a day if you don't need income. There is nothing I want or would do with extra money that makes up for all the negatives.

Edit: I meant to edit this part into my above post, not do two posts in a row.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:47 AM   #584
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
kirk55555 you do know that you could go back to school to increase your earning power?
I have no money for school. I was only a C student at anything not involving computers when I was in school, and even if I could afford the local community college, there is nothing there that I'd be good enough to learn that I could use anyway.
You could work and go to school. Or you can get grants and loans.

Good thing I'm not your parent. You'd either be working or going to school (my daughter does both) or you'd be finding another place to live.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:48 AM   #585
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I'd like to personally invite you to post in the neutral zone where this discussion can be carried on in a more suitable arena.
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