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Old October 2 2013, 03:59 AM   #196
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
Nightmare Moon wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

It's the first step toward the single payer option.
How? The ACA only forces the insurance to not drop people and makes it easier to get coverage. It's like saying that forcing businesses to not exclude minorities is socialism.
Bullshit.

Don't put words in my mouth.


I asked you to explain your position and then explained what is really going on. I'm not sure how that is putting words in your mouth.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
He's not, it's an analogy to show your position in erroneous. He asked you to explain how (which you did not do in your post), explains what the PPACA does, and then explains why your statement is erroneous through analogy.
Exactly.
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Old October 2 2013, 04:01 AM   #197
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Wow, well said LoB, for someone in mi childhoodz runin mi franchisez.
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Old October 2 2013, 04:18 AM   #198
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
Kreacher wrote: View Post
Calling the ACA "going socialist" is quite a stretch.
It's the first step toward the single payer option.
If only we were that lucky.


Yanks wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Socialism is here to stay. People love it. Get over it.
As long as those people have other folks money to spend...

The well WILL run dry, it always does.

Just look at how many cities are going bankrupt around the country.
Did you know that our military, our courts, and our law enforcement have been socialist for quite some time now?
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Old October 2 2013, 08:44 AM   #199
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
It wasn't a hissy fit, it was a plea to attempt to keep this nation from going socialist.
You guys are hilarious.
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Old October 2 2013, 10:51 AM   #200
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Nightmare Moon wrote: View Post
Haggis and tatties wrote: View Post
So is this health care thing going to be similar to what we have in the UK, everybody gets access to healthcare regardless of work, income or ability to pay?
No, we still have to pay the insurance companies. They just can't kick us off anymore. The insurance companies used to be able to kick people off for really any reason they wanted, usually because we required them. They like to take in money, but hate spending it. The people against the ACA are defending their desire to be money vampires.
So everybody still has to pay for medical help regardless, i thought it was all about bringing a free health care for all to the US, such a complicated issue when your watching from the side lines.

I assume there are doctors and hospitals somebody with no medical insurance can go and get help when they need it?

And i admit not getting the whole "socialist" things, goes right over my head that one.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:19 AM   #201
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Haggis and tatties wrote: View Post
I assume there are doctors and hospitals somebody with no medical insurance can go and get help when they need it?
Hospitals are required to stabilize you whether you have insurance or not. If you need more intense treatment things get dicier as you're not likely to get the best of treatments and if you cannot pay either the hospital writes it off, raising the costs for everyone else, or you elect to go untreated. In some cases you pay what you can and go into utter debt and misery until you declare bankruptcy.

It's all very complicated made "slightly" "easier" by everyone now required to have health insurance.
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Old October 2 2013, 01:27 PM   #202
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
He's not, it's an analogy to show your position in erroneous. He asked you to explain how (which you did not do in your post), explains what the PPACA does, and then explains why your statement is erroneous through analogy.
Didn't think I had to elaborate on the obvious.

This legislation is stupid.

The cost will have the politicians (government) storming in to "help" fix a system they themselves created. Government run Healthcare. That is socialist.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreyd...ise-americans/

You can put lipstick on a pig...
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Last edited by Yanks; October 2 2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old October 2 2013, 01:45 PM   #203
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

You can flag just about anything as Socialist these days, since we're not living in individual cabins in the woods. Question is just whether it's better to keep our current system (fairly broken, as anyone anywhere near medicine will tell you) or if it's worth getting together as a society and seeing if we can't do better.

Firefighting is socialist, but it's kinda nice when they just show up at a fire, isn't it? Schools are socialist, but looking at how retarded we are even WITH teachers trying to help us, probably better than everyone being homeschooled by mouthbreathers on THAT downward trajectory.

It's ALL socialist, just a matter of whether we think the service is worth it or not. Since we pay more and get less than just about everyone, seems worth a try...
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Old October 2 2013, 01:52 PM   #204
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Scout101 wrote: View Post
You can flag just about anything as Socialist these days, since we're not living in individual cabins in the woods. Question is just whether it's better to keep our current system (fairly broken, as anyone anywhere near medicine will tell you) or if it's worth getting together as a society and seeing if we can't do better.

Firefighting is socialist, but it's kinda nice when they just show up at a fire, isn't it? Schools are socialist, but looking at how retarded we are even WITH teachers trying to help us, probably better than everyone being homeschooled by mouthbreathers on THAT downward trajectory.

It's ALL socialist, just a matter of whether we think the service is worth it or not. Since we pay more and get less than just about everyone, seems worth a try...
You are just making the case to get government out of all this stuff.

The government has forced a model that relies on businesses to "provide" heathcare.

I think that's wrong.

Get individual business out of the picture of providing heath insurance.

Does you business provide your auto or homeowners insurance?

The free market WILL make it affordable to all. But it's never been allowed to.
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Old October 2 2013, 02:04 PM   #205
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Your argument is basically that it won't work, forcing the government to pass other measures. The problem is that the previous status quo was horribly broken, which is what forced the government to pass this measure. You want to know what would have moved the quickest towards exclusively government-provided health care? Striking down the individual mandate in the Supreme Court, but preserving the rest of the law. The requirement that insurance companies can't deny coverage because of preexisting conditions (which is popular for almost everyone) would bankrupt insurance companies in no time (as opposed to this, which has shown itself to work relatively well on a smaller scale in Massachusetts). That would have resulted in the government having to step in.

If anything, the PPACA prevents a government run system rather than increases the chances of one.
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Old October 2 2013, 02:17 PM   #206
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Your argument is basically that it won't work, forcing the government to pass other measures. The problem is that the previous status quo was horribly broken, which is what forced the government to pass this measure. You want to know what would have moved the quickest towards exclusively government-provided health care? Striking down the individual mandate in the Supreme Court, but preserving the rest of the law. The requirement that insurance companies can't deny coverage because of preexisting conditions (which is popular for almost everyone) would bankrupt insurance companies in no time (as opposed to this, which has shown itself to work relatively well on a smaller scale in Massachusetts). That would have resulted in the government having to step in.

If anything, the PPACA prevents a government run system rather than increases the chances of one.
My argument is that government should have been "involved" in the first place.

But as you say, "can't deny coverage" sounds great, so that will be the standard.

We'll see what happens.
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Old October 2 2013, 02:20 PM   #207
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
Kreacher wrote: View Post
Calling the ACA "going socialist" is quite a stretch.
It's the first step toward the single payer option.
Yup, and I can't wait.

The idea that health care shouldn't be the responsibility of the government, much like police or fire care, is ludicrous. Heck, even SimCity has the (admittedly municipal) government building and maintaining the hospitals and clinics.

(For the record, the SimCity argument was not serious, and anyone who takes it seriously has no joy in their lives.)
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Old October 2 2013, 02:20 PM   #208
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
The government has forced a model that relies on businesses to "provide" heathcare.

I think that's wrong.

Get individual business out of the picture of providing heath insurance.
So I take it you are for single-payer universal health care.
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Old October 2 2013, 02:24 PM   #209
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
The government has forced a model that relies on businesses to "provide" heathcare.

I think that's wrong.

Get individual business out of the picture of providing heath insurance.
So I take it you are for single-payer universal health care.
What?
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Old October 2 2013, 02:28 PM   #210
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Im N Ur Childhoodz wrote: View Post
Thirdly, I wouldn't stand and ramble pointlessly for 21 hours protesting a policy that hasn't even been implemented yet while reading a book about how it's silly to reject something before you try it, and completely misunderstanding a message meant for five year olds. That's not a mistake, that's an irony nuke.
I love "irony nuke." The rambling didn't bother me; I expect some in a long filibuster. But the lack of reading comprehension was mind-boggling!
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