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Old October 1 2013, 09:27 PM   #166
iguana_tonante
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Don't worry. When your kind is done with the US it will be a shithole and 3rd world country. Then we can all be sick, poor, and jobless together.
Your... "kind"?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
You guys are so funny. Also, if you are gonna write such silly things, please drop the iguana avatar. It's embarrassing.
I am keeping the avatar.
Iguanas are smart, gentle, sociable creatures. Your posts are ruining their reputation.

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
There is a huge difference in looking at healthcare for 300,000,000 vs 30,000,000.
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
You cannot compare smaller populations and economies to the 300,000,000 living in US.
Source?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
"We asked Kingsdale, now a director of Wakely Consulting Group, a health care consulting company, if Obamacare was the most efficient way to provide affordable health care to more people."
Of course it isn't. The best, most efficient way to provide affordable health care to more people is a tax-funded, state-sponsored universal healthcare service. Everybody knows that.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:41 PM   #167
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex, what part of use multi-quote are you not understanding? You posted two posts in short order with the second one not being a reply to anyone in particular, just more of you ranting and insulting people (the latter of which you need to cut out too). If you do it again you'll receive an infraction.

Those posts are not consecutive so what's your problem?


Oh yeah, I forget that I am visiting the most poorly moderated and biased forum I have ever participated in.

Don't infract me, just ban me. A KKK meeting is more warm and welcoming than this joint.


Star Trek Fans, all about being open and accepting everybody, unless you have a different opinion. In which case, you can go fuck yourself.
Hey, remember how Star Trek was set in a post-capitalist utopia where everyone has access to their basic needs, including medical care, without having to work themselves to death in order to get it? That Gene Roddenberry sure was craaaaaaaazy.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:45 PM   #168
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Don't infract me, just ban me. A KKK meeting is more warm and welcoming than this joint.
Given some of the views you've expressed, I'm not terribly surprised that the KKK would warmly welcome you.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:45 PM   #169
nightwind1
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Naira wrote: View Post
Excuse my naive question, but what do people with no health insurance actually do in the US when they get sick?
They get treated anyway, then skip out on paying and leave everyone else stuck with the bill.

Kind of like dining-and-ditching at a restaurant.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:57 PM   #170
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

nightwind1 wrote: View Post
Naira wrote: View Post
Excuse my naive question, but what do people with no health insurance actually do in the US when they get sick?
They get treated anyway, then skip out on paying and leave everyone else stuck with the bill.

Kind of like dining-and-ditching at a restaurant.
True, except most of them have no choice. It's like a homeless man, desperate for food, eats at the only restaurant in town because if he doesn't eat anything, he dies. Sure he knows he can't pay, but what else is he to do? People who have no insurance (and can't afford it or are simply denied it) know it's going to cost them thousands, and they know they won't be able to pay, but if they don't get medical treatment, they'll die.

That this has to go on, due to necessity, in one of the richest nations in the world is disgusting.
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Old October 1 2013, 10:00 PM   #171
iguana_tonante
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Don't infract me, just ban me. A KKK meeting is more warm and welcoming than this joint.
Given some of the views you've expressed, I'm not terribly surprised that the KKK would warmly welcome you.
win
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Old October 1 2013, 10:10 PM   #172
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Manticore wrote: View Post
Naira wrote: View Post
If I understand correctly, the whole point of this disagreement is that many Americans do not want to be requested to pay for health insurance. But, what do people who don't have any do when they get sick?
They go to the emergency room.
Is it common for people in the US to have thousands of dollars kept aside to spend in case of emergency? Or do they just die?
No, they don't have the thousands set aside. Instead, they declare bankruptcy and let everyone who does have insurance foot the bill.
And this is quite common. Medical bills are the number one reason why people declare bankruptcy in this country.
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Old October 1 2013, 10:18 PM   #173
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So long as she doesn't fall out of compliance, we got insurance through the wife's job--for now. after 1/1/14 we'll see. If she gets her hours cut and files below compliance, she's off it for good.

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex, what part of use multi-quote are you not understanding? You posted two posts in short order with the second one not being a reply to anyone in particular, just more of you ranting and insulting people (the latter of which you need to cut out too). If you do it again you'll receive an infraction.

Those posts are not consecutive so what's your problem?


Oh yeah, I forget that I am visiting the most poorly moderated and biased forum I have ever participated in.

Don't infract me, just ban me. A KKK meeting is more warm and welcoming than this joint.


Star Trek Fans, all about being open and accepting everybody, unless you have a different opinion. In which case, you can go fuck yourself.
You have watched Trek haven't you? Cause that's sort of the Federation's entire diplomatic policy in a nutshell.
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Old October 1 2013, 10:55 PM   #174
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.
The fines will be deducted from income tax refunds (or included in the amount that you owe, I assume, but I haven't actually seen that documented). As for affordability, there will be subsidies, as J. Allen said. Also, in most states, Medicaid is being expanded, so it will pick up more of the lowest-income people.
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Old October 1 2013, 11:07 PM   #175
J. Allen
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Kreacher wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post



The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.
The fines will be deducted from income tax refunds (or included in the amount that you owe, I assume, but I haven't actually seen that documented). As for affordability, there will be subsidies, as J. Allen said. Also, in most states, Medicaid is being expanded, so it will pick up more of the lowest-income people.
It's going to be a great thing for a lot of low income folks. In fact, I predict in 20 years, people will be telling the government to get its hands off their Obamacare.
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Old October 2 2013, 12:16 AM   #176
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I feel lucky to have such great medical insurance through my employer, and that there is no possibility of my hours being cut. I pay $5 a month for my medical insurance right now, so having to pay $200 or more would be a big difference for me. Although my benefits are great my actual salary is not very high. Before I got this job I did not have health insurance for a couple of years. Luckily I did not get sick. I am very grateful for my situation now and hope that in a few years time the kinks will be worked out of this new system.
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Old October 2 2013, 12:18 AM   #177
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The website has been unusable all day
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Old October 2 2013, 12:26 AM   #178
Australis
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

First off, Rob, thanks for your answer a few pages back. I got the gist of it, though it still seems somewhat complicated to me.

As for our new friend... wow. Alex1939? More like Alex1839.
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Old October 2 2013, 12:40 AM   #179
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Squiggy wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Has the shutdown had any effect?
On the rollout? Probably not. Obamacare (and it's rollout) were already funded.
I wondered if the IT support staff for the website was affected. I agree that it's mandatory spending, but I didn't know if that makes every employer essential.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.
If you qualify for medicaid, you are exempt from the mandate (but should probably get medicaid).* If you don't qualify for medicaid, you have to buy insurance, but you qualify for subsidies depending on how low your income is. If you fail to get insurance, you owe a fine that's based on your income (so the less income you make, the lower you have to pay). This is assessed through your taxes and the IRS can do no worse than take your tax refund to pay it. The fine starts small, but increases each year. There's supposed to be a cap on the maximum amount of fine, which I believe is the same cost as an unsubsidized insurance plan (so you'll never pay more for not having coverage than you would for having coverage).

* It's slightly more complicated due to some states refusing to adopt the expanded medicaid coverage, but that's the basic idea.
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Old October 2 2013, 12:56 AM   #180
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Just a few links with figures to add to the debate

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries

We'll compare the UK to the US.

Rank: UK 14, US 46
Efficeny Score: UK 55.7, US 30.8
Life Expentacy: UK 80.8, US 78.6
GDP cost per capita: UK 9.4%, US 17.2%
Cost per captia US$: UK 3 690, US 8 608

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3825477.html

is related to that bloomberg report.


So it's more expensive than the UK, Is less efficent than the UK and the life expentacy is lower.

Now of course the various health care systems used around the world have they pros and cons.

But from what I've read regarding the current crisis in the US is that it is the far-right of the Republic party the element known as the Tea Party that appears to be holding the US to ransom. Some of the more moderate Republics are willing to pass a budget (or perhaps more accuratly a Continuing Resolution) with no rider attaced related to PPACA.

If the US public is so against PPACA then surely they should be able to gain a two thirds majority in both Houses of Congress in order to esure they can repeal the PPACA. However I think that won't happen as by and large it appears as if the US is roughly split 50/50 Democrat/Republican. Included in that is of course the swing voters who appear often to decide the outcome of US elections.

To draw an analogy from US history it appears as if certain elements of the US Congress are fighting over the hose pipe whilst the house is on fire. (An over simplification maybe)

Would it be better if the Tea Party Republicans split from the Republican Party and formed their own party? Surely if they are that confident if their beliefs that those who normally vote Republican believe in their policies rather than the more moderate polives of some of the other Repblicans they should easily sweep into power.

Sometimes a vote will be cast because of a particualr candidate, more or often or not we vote for the party that most closely supports our beliefs.
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