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Old October 1 2013, 07:52 PM   #151
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
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Old October 1 2013, 07:57 PM   #152
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
You need to do nothing, you have health insurance.
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Old October 1 2013, 07:58 PM   #153
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
You need to do nothing, you have health insurance.
Good.

I guess I was just more curious about how it's going to work for all the people that don't.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:04 PM   #154
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

http://www.businessinsider.com/will-...oy-jobs-2013-8

"When it comes into effect in January 2015, Obamacare will require firms with 50 or more full-time employees to offer them affordable health insurance or pay a fine of $2,000-3,000 per worker. That alarms firms that do not already offer coverage. But for many, there is a way round the law."


Welcome to your new PART time job.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...163335504.html


We asked Kingsdale, now a director of Wakely Consulting Group, a health care consulting company, if Obamacare was the most efficient way to provide affordable health care to more people.
John Kingsdale, who helped create and run Mitt Romney's heath care reform program in Massachusetts and has consulted with the Obama White House, says, "“Absolutely not,” he tells us. “We’ve taken the most complex financing system for healthcare in the world and made it even more complex.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...re-marc-siegel

"This is because our health-care system is broken, with a bias toward rewarding high tech but not hard work. And instead of addressing the essential problems that many doctors face (too many patients, too many restrictions, diminishing reimbursements, increasing expenses, the ever-present threat of malpractice litigation), Obamacare just extends these problems to more patients."


I know a nurse that complains all the time about ridiculous regulations. Where she has to run an X-ray even though she knows it is completed unnecessary because it is either government (in medicare/medicaid) mandated or mandated by the insurance company. Same thing with prescription drugs. Where she wants to assign a certain drug that has less side effects that could effect this person, but the insurance company mandates that she assigns another one where she know the particular patient will probably not respond well to that particular drug.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti..._campaign=1490

From Singapore to UK for cervical cancer treatment...

"But, on arriving home, the 34-year-old was horrified to be told by her doctor that the health service was in a ‘shambles’, she would ‘probably die on the waiting list’ – and would be better off going back to Singapore to get treatment there."





Welcome to government run healthcare. Or sorry, government forcing people to buy from insurers that will make this a nightmare for everybody. Oh yeah, I forget "evil insurance" companies because anyone in business is evil, isn't that correct ultra-liberal TrekBBS that doesn't know the first thing about how economies or government works??


Don't worry, sleep peacefully, Obama and the government will take care of you. Keep dreaming your thoughts of those evil capitalist and workers in society who deserve to be screwed over so your lazy ass can get some third-rate medicine that will leave you crapping blood.


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Old October 1 2013, 08:11 PM   #155
Manticore
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

India is also a second world country. I'm sure that the US, the richest country in the world, could easily do a much better job with a significantly smaller population. Here's a better example: Brazil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Brazil. Population 200 million, again, somewhat poorer than the US, but definitely not a terrible system.

With our current system, we are paying more than just about any other developed country for less. We are forcing our doctor's offices to hire personnel just to navigate the bureaucracy of numerous different companies - thus increasing our costs. We are paying for people who aren't covered, and thus go for emergency rather than preventative care, which is more expensive and they can't pay for it anyway.

Just about anything is an improvement over our system.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:16 PM   #156
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
http://www.businessinsider.com/will-...oy-jobs-2013-8

"When it comes into effect in January 2015, Obamacare will require firms with 50 or more full-time employees to offer them affordable health insurance or pay a fine of $2,000-3,000 per worker. That alarms firms that do not already offer coverage. But for many, there is a way round the law."


Welcome to your new PART time job.
Ummm, yeah.

Do you know how many employers have more than 50 employees and don't already provide insurance coverage?

WaPo

Part of the reason is that the mandate, as written, affects relatively few employers. “You’ve got 5.7 million firms in the U.S.,” says Wharton’s Mark Duggan, who served as the top health economist at White House’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2009 to 2010. “Only 210,000 have more than 50 employees. So 96 percent of firms aren’t affected. Then if you look among those firms with 50 or more employees, something on the order of 95 percent offer health insurance. So it’s basically 10,000 or so employers who have more than 50 employees and don’t offer coverage.” Those companies probably employ around one percent of American workers.
One percent of the workforce. And some of them will have coverage through their parents or spouse, others will work for employers who support the President, and still others who will support helping their employees. So, significantly less than one percent of the workforce.

You knew that though, right?
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Old October 1 2013, 08:18 PM   #157
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
The quality of Indian healthcare is varied.
The same is true of U.S. health care.

We're great -- arguably the best in the world -- at research and development of new procedures and medications. For complex and/or rare medical conditions, there's no place better to go than the top handful of U.S. research/teaching hospitals.

But we've been terrible at ensuring that everyone has access to basic medical care. And, yes, health care is a human right, per international law.

The U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the U.S. has signed, says, "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:35 PM   #158
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex, what part of use multi-quote are you not understanding? You posted two posts in short order with the second one not being a reply to anyone in particular, just more of you ranting and insulting people (the latter of which you need to cut out too). If you do it again you'll receive an infraction.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:40 PM   #159
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Don't worry, sleep peacefully, Obama and the government will take care of you. Keep dreaming your thoughts of those evil capitalist and workers in society who deserve to be screwed over so your lazy ass can get some third-rate medicine that will leave you crapping blood.
Are you having a separate discussion in your imagination? Because the above statement certainly doesn't fit me, nobody else in this thread has said anything like that, and you do not know enough about them, or me, to make that characterization.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:44 PM   #160
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:45 PM   #161
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Don't worry, sleep peacefully, Obama and the government will take care of you. Keep dreaming your thoughts of those evil capitalist and workers in society who deserve to be screwed over so your lazy ass can get some third-rate medicine that will leave you crapping blood.
Are you having a separate discussion in your imagination? Because the above statement certainly doesn't fit me, nobody else in this thread has said anything like that, and you do not know enough about them, or me, to make that characterization.
It's a monologue. It's what the most devout of proselytizers do. If you have questions, they don't answer you directly. They push forward with their pre-formulated message, trying to distract and defuse without being direct. Directness is bad, because then they can't stay on message, they have to answer questions, and most lack the knowledge to adequately answer said questions, so it's more of what you're seeing above.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?
The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.
And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.
A key difference is that unlike the current system, the less income you have, the more subsidies you'll be eligible for. For those who can afford insurance, but won't purchase it either through the exchange, or through employer coverage, a fine will be levied against their income taxes at the end of the year.

The PPACA is built for low income families.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:56 PM   #162
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

J. Allen wrote: View Post
It's a monologue. It's what the most devout of proselytizers do. If you have questions, they don't answer you directly. They push forward with their pre-formulated message, trying to distract and defuse without being direct. Directness is bad, because then they can't stay on message, they have to answer questions, and most lack the knowledge to adequately answer said questions, so it's more of what you're seeing above.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:21 PM   #163
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Excuse my naive question, but what do people with no health insurance actually do in the US when they get sick?

A bit over a year ago, my mother was diagnosed with cancer. I have no idea what her treatments would cost us if she had no insurance. Even the smallest bottle of medicine seemed to cost more than a few hundreds of euros. Unfortunately, cancer and other serious diseases are common.

If I understand correctly, the whole point of this disagreement is that many Americans do not want to be requested to pay for health insurance. But, what do people who don't have any do when they get sick? Is it common for people in the US to have thousands of dollars kept aside to spend in case of emergency? Or do they just die?

(I am not trying to raise any fights here, I am genuinely interested in the answer.)
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Old October 1 2013, 09:25 PM   #164
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Naira wrote: View Post
If I understand correctly, the whole point of this disagreement is that many Americans do not want to be requested to pay for health insurance. But, what do people who don't have any do when they get sick?
They go to the emergency room.
Is it common for people in the US to have thousands of dollars kept aside to spend in case of emergency? Or do they just die?
No, they don't have the thousands set aside. Instead, they declare bankruptcy and let everyone who does have insurance foot the bill.
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Old October 1 2013, 09:25 PM   #165
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex1939 wrote: View Post
snip
Alex, what part of use multi-quote are you not understanding? You posted two posts in short order with the second one not being a reply to anyone in particular, just more of you ranting and insulting people (the latter of which you need to cut out too). If you do it again you'll receive an infraction.

Those posts are not consecutive so what's your problem?


Oh yeah, I forget that I am visiting the most poorly moderated and biased forum I have ever participated in.

Don't infract me, just ban me. A KKK meeting is more warm and welcoming than this joint.


Star Trek Fans, all about being open and accepting everybody, unless you have a different opinion. In which case, you can go fuck yourself.
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