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Old September 29 2013, 08:31 PM   #46
Merry Christmas
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

^YMMV.
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Old September 30 2013, 10:28 AM   #47
Robert Comsol
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

Infern0 wrote: View Post
I think the real question is what does god need with a starship
He did not. What we saw in ST V was probably another Q who had been imprisoned on that god-forsaken planet and deprived of most of his higher powers.

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Old September 30 2013, 11:15 AM   #48
grendelsbayne
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

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Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.
In that case, Sisko was more the Emissary (or at least advocate) to the Bajorans than to the prophets.
The Prophets are 'of Bajor' and have shown themselves to be specifically concerned with Bajor (and no one else) throughout their entire history (as far as we know). So what exactly would be the actual difference between Emissary to the Bajorans and Emissary to the Prophets?
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Old September 30 2013, 12:47 PM   #49
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.
In that case, Sisko was more the Emissary (or at least advocate) to the Bajorans than to the prophets.
The Prophets are 'of Bajor' and have shown themselves to be specifically concerned with Bajor (and no one else) throughout their entire history (as far as we know). So what exactly would be the actual difference between Emissary to the Bajorans and Emissary to the Prophets?
Emissary has the sense of being a representative to a specific person or group who is tasked with a specific mission. Being the prophets' emissary means that he does their bidding and delivers their message. In SOA, his role is reversed: he advocates for the interest of the contemporary Bajorans, not the former Bajorans. It's not clear that they intended "the Sisko" to perform this function, and it's not clear that up to this point, the Prophets would intervene in corporeal affairs in such a way to protect Bajor (they hadn't intervened in the occupation, for instance).
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Old September 30 2013, 01:13 PM   #50
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

I think you're reading a little too much into the title 'Emissary', which, as far as I can see, was never supposed to be anything other than a moderately original sounding version of the many religious titles we're all familiar with today

And as for Sisko convincing the Prophets to do things sometimes - I'm not sure what's all that remarkable about it. It's clear from the beginning that the Prophets do not demand absolute loyalty from him. He's always been free to continue his life in Starfleet - even to marry Kassidy and go to Cardassia, despite being warned by the Prophets not to do so. So he obviously doesn't fit into the kind of classic religious archetype wherein he can't ever defy his 'gods' without suffering their wrath.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:35 PM   #51
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

^I fully understand that there is no formality to what Sisko does with regard to Bajoran religion. However, if you don't understand how I am using the word--my turn of phrase--, than it must be explained to you.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:41 PM   #52
grendelsbayne
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

^ I guess what I'm saying is: I understand it. I just don't understand why it's relevant.
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Old September 30 2013, 03:51 PM   #53
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

^I'm suggesting that the Prophets tend to imagine their relationship with Bajor differently than Bajorans do, and that in spite of their goodwill (and, in general, their good results), they still tend to be paternalistic. They don't see things in the same terms as Bajorans, and it's not clear that they believe that they need to. That's why she shift in Sisko's role, which I have illustrated rhetorically as becoming the emissary to the Bajorans, represented a challenge to their way of thinking and, possibly, a change in the way they relate to Bajor.
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Old September 30 2013, 08:43 PM   #54
grendelsbayne
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Re: The question of God or a higher power in ST

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
^I'm suggesting that the Prophets tend to imagine their relationship with Bajor differently than Bajorans do, and that in spite of their goodwill (and, in general, their good results), they still tend to be paternalistic. They don't see things in the same terms as Bajorans, and it's not clear that they believe that they need to. That's why she shift in Sisko's role, which I have illustrated rhetorically as becoming the emissary to the Bajorans, represented a challenge to their way of thinking and, possibly, a change in the way they relate to Bajor.
Oh, ok. That makes a lot of sense, thinking about it.
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