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Old October 10 2013, 12:49 AM   #751
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
I had a thought, though: What about using the show to pick up threads the movies seem to have dropped? Maybe they could bring back Tim Blake Nelson as Samuel Stearns/The Leader. The movie wasn't successful enough to warrant the sequel they were setting up with Stearns, so why not do it on TV?
^That is a fantastic idea. The Leader could potentially be a season-long Big Bad, if handled properly.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:03 AM   #752
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
We're only three episodes in. Each episode has shown a marked improvement. What do people want? How many shows are instant classics right out the gate? TNG? Buffy? DS9? B5? None of the above. This shown has just been great fun. I think it's way too early too pass judgement on it as it's really just getting started and finding its identity.
I'm going to push back on this. Why do I have to wait for a show to improve? Why can't it be good from the beginning? A lot of shows are. Arrow had a great pilot. Warehouse 13 had a great pilot. West Wing had an AMAZING pilot. This whole idea that pilots aren't very good...just don't buy it. Sure, shows improve on their pilots, but, why can't a show, you know, start off good?

I can't speak to Buffy, but the other three, all had something I was engaged with, right from the beginning, and improved from there. Farscape, nuBattlestar. All great pilots that improved from there. (Perhaps later stumbled... sure...) Sleepy Hollow for a new show. The Headless Horseman had a machine gun...! Awesome sauce.

But, I honestly can't think of a show that I didn't like at the start that suddenly I did.

This show just doesn't engage me. It feels like weak sauce and lazy writing. Riding on the coattails of a very successful movie universe (which they keep reminding us of.)
I'm not saying that you have to wait for anything to improve. I'm not trying to manage your viewing habits in the slightest. I'm just saying that in my own experience, I prefer to give a show a chance to grow a little before writing it off.

I could've given up on TNG after three episodes. Encounter at Farpoint, The Naked Now and Code of Honor? Yuck! Hell, TNG didn't begin to get anywhere near good until 3/4 of the way through season 1. Glad I stuck with it.

Sometimes I'll stick with a show that never quite gets it together (The Cape, No Ordinary Family), but I never regret giving the show a chance.

And I can think of a show that I didn't like, didn't engage me and I gave up on early that I later regretted doing so-- Star Wars: The Clone Wars. The movie that started it off was horrible and gave no reason to keep following. Except the show ran five seasons and it is generally well liked. Should I not have given up despite the fact the movie/pilot did nothing for me? Or should I have given a chance to improve? I wish that I had given Clone Wars that chance.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:11 AM   #753
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I had a thought, though: What about using the show to pick up threads the movies seem to have dropped? Maybe they could bring back Tim Blake Nelson as Samuel Stearns/The Leader. The movie wasn't successful enough to warrant the sequel they were setting up with Stearns, so why not do it on TV?
^That is a fantastic idea. The Leader could potentially be a season-long Big Bad, if handled properly.
If the noises about Ruffalo's performance triggering a rethink about a future Hulk project don't bear fruit, maybe.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:30 AM   #754
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Agents of SHIELD may well have killed off ABC's touted Hulk TV show. If so then it might be nice to see AoS incorporate a little of the Hulk's mythology.

Not that that would make things okay, of course.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:42 AM   #755
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Not sure that I'd make that assumption about SHIELD re: Hulk projects just yet.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:12 AM   #756
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
We're only three episodes in. Each episode has shown a marked improvement. What do people want? How many shows are instant classics right out the gate? TNG? Buffy? DS9? B5? None of the above. This shown has just been great fun. I think it's way too early too pass judgement on it as it's really just getting started and finding its identity.
I'm going to push back on this. Why do I have to wait for a show to improve? Why can't it be good from the beginning? A lot of shows are. Arrow had a great pilot. Warehouse 13 had a great pilot. West Wing had an AMAZING pilot. This whole idea that pilots aren't very good...just don't buy it. Sure, shows improve on their pilots, but, why can't a show, you know, start off good?

I can't speak to Buffy, but the other three, all had something I was engaged with, right from the beginning, and improved from there. Farscape, nuBattlestar. All great pilots that improved from there. (Perhaps later stumbled... sure...) Sleepy Hollow for a new show. The Headless Horseman had a machine gun...! Awesome sauce.

But, I honestly can't think of a show that I didn't like at the start that suddenly I did.

This show just doesn't engage me. It feels like weak sauce and lazy writing. Riding on the coattails of a very successful movie universe (which they keep reminding us of.)
I'm not saying that you have to wait for anything to improve. I'm not trying to manage your viewing habits in the slightest. I'm just saying that in my own experience, I prefer to give a show a chance to grow a little before writing it off.

I could've given up on TNG after three episodes. Encounter at Farpoint, The Naked Now and Code of Honor? Yuck! Hell, TNG didn't begin to get anywhere near good until 3/4 of the way through season 1. Glad I stuck with it.

Sometimes I'll stick with a show that never quite gets it together (The Cape, No Ordinary Family), but I never regret giving the show a chance.

And I can think of a show that I didn't like, didn't engage me and I gave up on early that I later regretted doing so-- Star Wars: The Clone Wars. The movie that started it off was horrible and gave no reason to keep following. Except the show ran five seasons and it is generally well liked. Should I not have given up despite the fact the movie/pilot did nothing for me? Or should I have given a chance to improve? I wish that I had given Clone Wars that chance.
Personally I go by a "three strikes and you're out" system. That is if a new show has three episodes in a row that felt like a waste of time, then (baring extraordinary circumstances) I give up on it.

It's served me well so far. And of the few shows that I gave up on that made it past the first season, most were simply not my cup of tea. Haven for example bored me to death so I gave up around episode 7 or 8 and yet I gather it's not in it's 3rd or 4th season? Been a few close run things though. Almost gave up on Defiance and Jeremiah on more that one occasion.

I get the arguments on both sides. On the one hand it's usually worth giving a new show a fair chance to build some momentum, but on the other hand there's a limit to what anyone is willing to sit through without being entertained. It's all about your personal thresholds.

As far as SHIELD goes...I'll keep watching it for now. Though it's awfully hammy at times--almost a throwback to 80's & 90's action shows--it's not *horrible* and there has been the odd flash of brilliance. Enough so far to keep me interested. Plus of course having Whedon's name attached makes a big difference to what I'm willing to sit through. Buffy Angel and Dollhouse all started off a bit slow and episodic and didn't really come into their own until about a dozen episodes in.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:15 AM   #757
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

The show certainly has... flaws. Mostly one is that I'm not sure what's going to sustain this show (story wise) over the course of several seasons. Hell, even one season. Aside from some threads here and there the episodes we've gotten have been fairly, well, episodic. And, worst of all, we've got some pretty bland and uninteresting characters. Aside from Coulson who else there really to root for? Blandy McSquarejaw? Cute Nerdy Chick Trope 27B-A? The Technoblather Twins? There's not a lot to grab onto here.

As bad as the first few episodes of TNG were at the very least you had an interesting range of characters all with personalities coming together in an interesting group dynamic. Hell, we have that with the first episode of "Firefly" plus the establishment of the type of universe we're in and maybe *some* idea of where the show is going and focusing on.

I'm sticking with SHIELD but, really, only out of some sense of loyalty to the MCU but, right now, it's not a show I'm raving about or would itch to get people to watch.

Watching the first episode of "The Walking Dead" got me hooked and I watched the next episode right away! Same with "Firefly" or, hell, most other shows I watch(ed) and love.

AoS, so far, nothing has really happened to lock me on. It's been fairly bland and generic so far and only has the MCU to carry it. It really needs more than that and, maybe, stop playing so safe.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:37 AM   #758
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

The actor who played the villain on this week's Shield, appeared on Law and Order: SVU tonight. He sure gets around.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:52 AM   #759
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I don't know...to be honest, I expect something more mythic with this series. It's still early, and they may give us that; but there is a great deal they could touch on that would likely never be in a movie. Space Phantoms or the much more scary Dire Wraiths; Night Thrasher, Speedball and other New Warriors; Grim Reaper; etc.

It sounds like their budget is really hurting, though; I believe that's what hurting the really showy stuff.
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Old October 10 2013, 05:46 AM   #760
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I'm not saying that you have to wait for anything to improve. I'm not trying to manage your viewing habits in the slightest. I'm just saying that in my own experience, I prefer to give a show a chance to grow a little before writing it off.
I'm not suggesting that you are managing my viewing habits, but you did ask "what do you people want?" And I answered: I want to be engaged, I want to be entertained... and I'm not. Simple as that. I've given it three hours, and the general response is, "you have to give it time..." No. I don't Other shows don't require time to become engaging. The writers are paid a lot of money to do a job, and that's to engage me. I don't think they are doing a very good job.


I could've given up on TNG after three episodes. Encounter at Farpoint, The Naked Now and Code of Honor? Yuck! Hell, TNG didn't begin to get anywhere near good until 3/4 of the way through season 1. Glad I stuck with it.
Given the context of the time and my age, I was very much engaged with the show right at the beginning.

The funny thing now: I can't really watch TNG. I see an episode on BBC America... I watch for about five minutes and then I wish Top Gear was on. And I'm not a car guy. It's that Top Gear engages me who I am today.


Sometimes I'll stick with a show that never quite gets it together (The Cape, No Ordinary Family), but I never regret giving the show a chance.
I feel like you are suggesting that I'm not giving SHIELD a chance. Are you saying that? If so why?

Because I feel I have given it a chance. Three chances to engage me.


And I can think of a show that I didn't like, didn't engage me and I gave up on early that I later regretted doing so-- Star Wars: The Clone Wars. The movie that started it off was horrible and gave no reason to keep following.
Never saw the movie. Heard the reviews were terrible. I just started with the show.


Except the show ran five seasons and it is generally well liked. Should I not have given up despite the fact the movie/pilot did nothing for me? Or should I have given a chance to improve? I wish that I had given Clone Wars that chance.
Like I said, I never watched the movie, so I can't say. But the movie is 90 minutes. That's less than I gave SHIELD. It's also one story. I gave SHIELD three stories.

I guess I'm having trouble following you because you are suggesting that I have given up "too soon" which implies there IS a point that it's ok to give up.

Look at it like a date. I go on a date with a woman, it's ok, but, there's nothing really there. It was ok. Maybe it was the night, maybe it was me. I go on a second one. Same thing. It wasn't great, not awful, but, I wasn't really engaged.

How long should I keep going out with her to realize, "hey, maybe there's a better way to spend my time?"
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Old October 10 2013, 06:11 AM   #761
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Well I'm giving SHIELD a bit more slack for a couple reasons 1 - it's a Marvel/Disney production which means that the 'suits' are probably trying to be very safe right out of the gate, it's not super Alias action level yet - even Alias while the first few episodes were good, had some nice action, more for the technopop music I think than any actual action - I think they want to save the really 'good' stuff for when they know people actually WANT to watch another 'super secret agent' show.

2. I can totally see WHY they went with a pretty much unknown set of characters - they have complete freedom, they can kill 'em, they give 'em super powers, they write them out and it won't feel like 'OMG HOW CAN YOU DO THAT TO THAT BELOVED CHARACTER"

I think really the ones who are all like 'meh it's okay.' are getting jaded on other similar genre shows and other shows that really try to push the envelope. Keep in mind, this is on ABC - which equals 'play it safe'. Castle has succeeded because it keeps the formula intact and relies on the witty banter, romantic subtext and the fact that it's funny. But if you break it down, if you watch Castle back to back to back to back, like it is on TNT lately, you start to go 'didn't I just see this?'

And don't get me wrong I LOVE Castle - Castle and SHIELD are on my DVR weekly and I make a point to watch them every week.

I think people on boards like this came into it expecting well, a lot more. Like Alias or Homefront or something more shocking. Yeah they're kinda generic right now, but I like the quirks so far - honestly I'm kinda hoping the big white guy goes away - and maybe... his days are numbered anyway. Maybe he DOES get killed somewhere later on as a shock ending. Fitz/Simmons are fun I like them. Skye's kinda weird and probably a double agent but then again... could she be working for Fury sorta on the down low, like HE was the one running the Rising Tide or something and it's a matter of seeing if she'll do the right thing or betray SHIELD. Fury's known for doing shit like that.

Although I DO want to see more actual Superheroes in the show and I would like to see more 'classic' SHIELD things touched on. Zodiac keys. Hydra. AIM. Baron Von Strucker. Madam Hydra. The Secret Empire.

Next week does seem like it's setting something up... maybe I'll get my wish.
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Old October 10 2013, 07:26 AM   #762
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

She's got balls?
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Old October 10 2013, 09:42 AM   #763
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
It sounds like their budget is really hurting, though; I believe that's what hurting the really showy stuff.
There is no rule that says they need a big budget to tell great stories.

They don't even need to tell great stories, I can deal with adventures of the week, I just wish they would tell their stories better. Make things matter, make their choices have repercussions, let them fail when they fuck up or even just fail because that is what happens a lot of the time, make admissions of fraternal abuse not appear as if created just to be tossed out for sympathy and to add a new note on a character's bio or at least do it with a bit more tact.

I like the show, honestly. I like a few of the characters and I really like the moments where it feels like a live action comic book. I want them to do the same show, but better.
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Old October 10 2013, 09:52 AM   #764
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Wow, some sad posting in this thread. SHIELD is a great show. I've loved every episode so far. Coulson's a fantastic character, of course, and so far it's been free of all the adolescent grittiness that's plagued so much pop culture over the past years. The secondary characters need to be developed, and that process has started with Wade and Sky-- I love how they've learned from each other in the past two episodes-- and now needs to be extended to the Techno Twins and the Cavalry. The format of the show is flexible-- we've gone from Mad Scientist to Jungle Adventure to James Bond so far-- and doesn't need yet another Big Bad. And it certainly doesn't need to do anything stupid like killing off characters. Hopefully it can maintain its ratings as is, because I'm loving it.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:19 PM   #765
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

over all I liked the episode, and I'm enjoying the show enough to stick with it this season. I liked the story this week and the fact that the guy they were rescuing didn't want to be rescued; Was I the only one who got the impression that Coulson anticipated this response ?

Not a huge fan of Coulson wearing a suit on the extraction mission, I agree it was meant as a gag but it really stood out as out of place. If they had to climb or crawl or anything having close flapping around like a suit does would just be problematic.

One odd thing that I noticed, when Ward disarms Mr. Cowboy we see him take a double barreled break-action shotgun from the guy; however as Mr Cowboy hits the ground we can hear Ward rack the slide of a pump-action shotgun off screen before the camera returns to him and we see him holding the cowboys gun.

Still love FitzSimmons, they amuse the crap out of me

Any idea why Coulson didn't slingshot the black gravity goo at the end ? I thought 0-8-4 suggested that this was standard operating procedure for powerful crap they can't control? I didn't get any impression that Coulson thinks Dr Hall is alive .

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