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Old May 2 2014, 04:51 AM   #5251
Hanukkah Solo
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post
By the way -- i REALLY like Triplett being a part of the team. he brings a positivity and energy that the team needs right now. It's a different kind of positivity that Skye brings

He's had a few scenes, but brings a light humor that balances out May's seriousness & Fitz' worry.


It'll be interesting if they parallel Garrett/Ward with Coulson/Triplett
The real world issue I noticed on another entertainment board I am on is that while AoS has two Asians in the main cast there were no darker skinned toned people in a large cast. Trip being added would correct what is now seen as a deficiency TV producers are always being attacked for.
Yeah, I'm really enjoying Trip as well and I hope he becomes a permanent member of the team. I love the dynamic he brings to the group, and he essentially fills the role that Ward left vacant when he revealed his true colors. I think by revealing Trip's strong connection to the MCU (as the grandson of--presumably--Gabe Jones) they've suggested that he'll be sticking around, but obviously I could be wrong.
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Old May 2 2014, 08:33 AM   #5252
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Masshyposis might work?

Stark once used a massive global brainwashing machine A.I.M. was going to use to take over the world to erase his public knowledge of his dual identity form the gestalt human conciousness and consensus.

Time travel would most certainly work.

Oh no.

This bad Ward dies, and then a good Ward from a parallel time line shows up to take his place.

I hate it when that happens.
Let's not sink that low.. comics are sometimes worse than daily soaps, especially with the killing and resurrecting fan favorite characters.

Right now they are apparently going to kill Wolverine in the comics, who wants to bet he'll return a year or two later (and boosts comic sales)? Captain America was killed off a few years ago and that made national news.. he stayed dead for a while only to be brought back with another lame, comicbook style method.

If Shield ever sinks that low it's time to give it up though when i think about it Coulson's resurrection could also fall into that category though it works within that show.

I can't find a single workable solution to integrate Ward back into the team and restore Status Quo.. he's killed people left and right and betrayed everything Shield stood for.

He can only die while doing one last good thing (and it has to be epic) for the team to be given even a chance at forgiveness.
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Old May 2 2014, 09:57 AM   #5253
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Hydra Island.

Hydra has recognized diplomatic status on the world stage, and Ward is their S.H.I.E.L.D. liaison.

A long time ago, it was almost a certainty that Illya Kuryakin was a former operative for the NKVD or the KGB, who had probably gone head to head with many, many, many American secret agents and survived over their dead bodies.

But he was gorgeous, so bo body cared.
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Old May 2 2014, 10:05 AM   #5254
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

How would a terrorist organization with an origin in Nazi Germany get a diplomatic status?

And there's no way Coulson would accept Ward back into the team even if ordered to do so. He'd rather resign (and i assume so would the rest of the team).
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Old May 2 2014, 10:53 AM   #5255
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

How surly they are barely matters if Iran and North Korea are still allowed to cut bait.

All that matters is the physical solvency of Hydra Island.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Hydra_Island

(There's also a real Hydra Island in Greece.)

After they make or take an island, diplomatic protection is not that far off.

In olden days you plant a flag, and 200 miles in every direction of that flag is yours, unless someone kills you and takes your flag. Claim what you want and then present the force of arms to keep it. I am describing exploration and invasion simultaneously.

In a less real, and modern world there are other options.

You may chose to set off a couple nukes, forcing the seabed to rise up, maybe piss a bunch of lava while you're at it. thus creating unclaimed land where there is no jurisdictional trouble. Basically if you have the resources, will and too much money, in a comic book universe it's not difficult to make an island, which has happened a couple times in comic books (And that awful Superman Movie). Doctor Demonicus did it too near the End of West Coast Avengers.

Meanwhile Hydra could buy or conquer an existing island, but building a country is not as difficult as you would think.

http://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country

I saw a documentary (Okay it was comedian making a massive pisstake, but it was still a bunch of real things that really happened) about an ordinary man trying to found his own country, which he did, so it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_...ur_Own_Country

The real difficulty is being recognized as a country by other countries and invited to join the UN.

Being recognized by other countries as a state, after you have taken/found land, is as arduous as asking a pre-existing state their thoughts on your state of being, pun intended. You have to remember that the shitty little States gain credibility by recognizing other states, so it's worth their time to embiggen the catalogue of D-list countries.

After you've been recognized by a few Banana republics willing to be paid off, you are technically a country but then getting into the UN is hard if you're a bunch of terrorist NAZIs, but hardly impossible.

The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
http://www.un.org/en/members/about.shtml

I'm not sure what stops a recognized State from signing into the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations (1961) after you have been recognized as a nation state, but again money solves a lot of problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_...atic_Relations

But it's basically: (Island + lawyers + time = Country) + time + money = Diplomatic recognition.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; May 2 2014 at 11:05 AM.
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Old May 2 2014, 01:06 PM   #5256
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yeah but it would still be impossible to allow Al Quaeda to become a recognized state, any nation that would open up diplomatic relations to them would be automatically shunned by the world community (Al Quaeda being the real world analogy to Hydra).

Of course stranger things have happened in comics but they are mostly small time, personal changes such as former enemies becoming members of the main group (Emma Frost for example) but accepting Hydra as a government is too far out to make any sense in any show, movie or comic and i doubt the audience would follow in that direction, not when Marvel is trying very hard to get some realism and believability into their movies while toning down the more ridiculous and out there elements of the comics (which work there).
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Old May 2 2014, 01:52 PM   #5257
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Besides Hand and Koenig, Ward killed several other agents and shot at Coulson (and Lola). He's way past redemption.
Well, that's one problem with Whedon series. Characters that in any real world scenario should be on death row for mass murder end up "good guys" because they "seek redemption."
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Old May 2 2014, 02:14 PM   #5258
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

African National Congress (ANC)
Hezbollah
Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)

http://www.cfr.org/terrorism/terrori...itimacy/p10159

This isn't a grand idea of mine I hold dear to my heart. i just considered a way where Ward could rejoin the team while still being a Hydra Agent who murdered a lot of people he really shoudn't have.

Oh shit.

Not an original thought in my head.

In the comics, Cobra Island is in the Gulf of Mexico. The island is artificially created as the result of a plan by Crimson Guard scientist Professor Appel. False information in Appel's home led the Joes to target an underwater bunker with a massive drop of non-nuclear bombs. The explosion triggered a faultline releasing volcanic stresses forcing an area of the ocean floor containing a sunken freighter Cobra base to rise above sea level.[1]
Realizing the strategic value of the new territory, G.I. Joe attempts to dislodge Cobra from the island via a pitched assault. The G.I. Joe team had nearly won when they were called off by the United States, as lawyers in Cobra's employ had successfully maneuvered to get the island sovereign nation status and recognition by the U.N..[2]
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Old May 2 2014, 02:23 PM   #5259
Star Wolf
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
African National Congress (ANC)
Hezbollah
Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)

http://www.cfr.org/terrorism/terrori...itimacy/p10159

This isn't a grand idea of mine I hold dear to my heart. i just considered a way where Ward could rejoin the team while still being a Hydra Agent who murdered a lot of people he really shoudn't have.

Oh shit.

Not an original thought in my head.

In the comics, Cobra Island is in the Gulf of Mexico. The island is artificially created as the result of a plan by Crimson Guard scientist Professor Appel. False information in Appel's home led the Joes to target an underwater bunker with a massive drop of non-nuclear bombs. The explosion triggered a faultline releasing volcanic stresses forcing an area of the ocean floor containing a sunken freighter Cobra base to rise above sea level.[1]
Realizing the strategic value of the new territory, G.I. Joe attempts to dislodge Cobra from the island via a pitched assault. The G.I. Joe team had nearly won when they were called off by the United States, as lawyers in Cobra's employ had successfully maneuvered to get the island sovereign nation status and recognition by the U.N..[2]
Time to bring this back up, Hydra in the MCU is linked to the Nazis and their is no turn and look the other way enemy of my enemy with Nazis in the mix.
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Old May 2 2014, 02:39 PM   #5260
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

It's not illegal (in America) to be a Nazi

Plenty of NeoNazis wandeirng about freerange.

Of course, is Baron Von Strucker in the movies the same guy from WWII or his grandson?
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Old May 2 2014, 03:00 PM   #5261
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

But it is illegal for Americans to take over foreign lands to setup as a Hydra free zone. And in the MCU the US government is rounding up suspected Hydra, because of their SHIELD employment both within and outside of US borders.
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Old May 2 2014, 03:52 PM   #5262
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Building an island in international waters works around pesky trouble with resltless natives but, since you asked the question...

It's completely illegal to invade a sovereign state right up to the point that the invaders take power, afterwhich the new president for life can pardon himself and all his underlings.

You know, what Castro did, and what Saddam Hussein did twice.

Saddam was the nuts and bolts guy, the number two to some other guy who got his ring kissed between 1969 to 1979. Goebbels and shit, y'know. So Saddam's boss is at the movies when Saddam gets a platoon to take out the movie theatre he was in with machine guns. and he kept power for the next 23 years.

Not a nice man, but effective.

Do you think that the British wanted to acknowledge the legitimacy of the United States?

Minutes of a meeting from the mid 50s came out recently where Winston Churchill is ranting that Gandhi wants to starve to death, let him die.

Wouldn't it be a happier world is Britain still controlled India?

(No it wouldn't. At least I doubt it would.)

If Britain still controlled India, would all Bollywood movies be made in English?
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Old May 2 2014, 04:15 PM   #5263
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Forbin wrote: View Post
Well, that's one problem with Whedon series. Characters that in any real world scenario should be on death row for mass murder end up "good guys" because they "seek redemption."
But another common thread of Whedon shows is that main-cast regulars often get killed off or written out, and new regulars replace them. I think it was planned all along to set up Ward as a red herring, reveal his betrayal, then bring in Triplett to take his place permanently.

I mean, heck, they successfully made a lot of viewers want to see Ward replaced. People were complaining about him on a number of levels -- he's too boring, he's too aloof, they should've cast a black guy instead for team diversity, etc. I think they were priming us all along to want someone more like Triplett, so that when Triplett came along, we'd welcome him into the ensemble rather than seeing him as an interloper.
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Old May 2 2014, 04:55 PM   #5264
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

About that TAHITI report:

Am I the only one who was put in mind of plots from 1950's suspense/horror-genre comic books?
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Old May 2 2014, 06:11 PM   #5265
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
Well, that's one problem with Whedon series. Characters that in any real world scenario should be on death row for mass murder end up "good guys" because they "seek redemption."
But another common thread of Whedon shows is that main-cast regulars often get killed off or written out, and new regulars replace them. I think it was planned all along to set up Ward as a red herring, reveal his betrayal, then bring in Triplett to take his place permanently.

I mean, heck, they successfully made a lot of viewers want to see Ward replaced. People were complaining about him on a number of levels -- he's too boring, he's too aloof, they should've cast a black guy instead for team diversity, etc. I think they were priming us all along to want someone more like Triplett, so that when Triplett came along, we'd welcome him into the ensemble rather than seeing him as an interloper.
Devious! But I wouldn't doubt it.
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