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Old October 2 2013, 11:19 PM   #511
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

"You made a mistake. You gave my team a chance to BOND!"

Uuuggggghhhh.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:20 PM   #512
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
But a lead character is the character who the majority of the story is about, and in a TV show, someone they are investing a lot of time and energy developing them as characters and their story.

It's true, Coulson doesn't need much because he's been in the movies, we understand his character, even though we don't actually know much about him. That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.
That's kind of like watching the first two episodes of Firefly and saying, "Beyond the mention of guys wearing blue gloves, there isn't a long-term story being developed for River." I'm sure they've only just begun to seed the clues for the long-term arc they have in mind, just as they've only begun to hint at Melinda's dark secret past, or at Ward's family history, or at the secret organization behind the Centipede experiments.


Meh 1 and Meh 2, they are laying groundwork and sending signals, this is the romantic couple of the show, this is the main ongoing story of the show. Certainly the mystery of Meh 2.

That's why I do consider them leads. Certainly we can agree they are the romantic leads of the show.
I will agree that Skye and Ward were, by that definition, the leads of the first two episodes. Given what we know about ensemble television in general and Whedon television in particular, it does not follow that the entire series will have the same unvarying emphasis. I expect all the characters to be given more or less equal focus over the course of the series, just not all at once.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:24 PM   #513
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?
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Old October 2 2013, 11:35 PM   #514
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

sojourner wrote: View Post
Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?
That actually occurred to me this morning -- that after setting them up as an inseparable team, it would be effective drama to kill one of them off (Fitz, please, because Simmons is gorgeous and fun) and force the other one to cope with the loss.
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Old October 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #515
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?
That actually occurred to me this morning -- that after setting them up as an inseparable team, it would be effective drama to kill one of them off (Fitz, please, because Simmons is gorgeous and fun) and force the other one to cope with the loss.
I don't know if the show will follow the usual Whedon style at all.

Whedon is known for his dark moments at times.. killing off beloved characters suddenly, breaking apart couples (usually by killing one of them) and such, you all know the ones i'm talking about.

It's too early to get a true vibe from the show.. will it become a cookie cutter freak of the week show or will it become darker as time progresses. So far it's been pretty bland but it's way too early to really tell as they are still setting up the characters and exploring them and on top of that developing the bigger storyline.

One hint though was the mystery of Coulson's survival.. from what we've seen it may not be something funny but could turn up quite dark (in this vein, Christoper already mentioned it, Tahiti being a "magical place" is just too odd whenever the subject of Coulson's survial comes up and could be a keyphrase that has something to do with it).

I really hope the show develops and moves past the dumb teenage/young attractive adults CW type show that rely on the hotness of the actors rather than engaging storylines. It would be a shame to see such a tentpole show with the Whedon name attached to it to be the first show i actively don't care about that was developed by him.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:00 AM   #516
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
But a lead character is the character who the majority of the story is about, and in a TV show, someone they are investing a lot of time and energy developing them as characters and their story.

It's true, Coulson doesn't need much because he's been in the movies, we understand his character, even though we don't actually know much about him. That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.
That's kind of like watching the first two episodes of Firefly and saying, "Beyond the mention of guys wearing blue gloves, there isn't a long-term story being developed for River." I'm sure they've only just begun to seed the clues for the long-term arc they have in mind, just as they've only begun to hint at Melinda's dark secret past, or at Ward's family history, or at the secret organization behind the Centipede experiments.
And see, I would say its clear in the pilot of Firefly there's going to be a long ongoing story about River. She arrives in a box, she's a mystery, her brother lied to get them on board. It's pretty clear River's story is pretty important right away.

Meh 2 and River are both mysteries. Who are they really?
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Old October 3 2013, 12:21 AM   #517
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

How is it not clear that the mystery of Coulson's survival is going to be an important arc? Not to mention May's backstory and the secret of why she walked away from combat missions? Those mysteries both feel to me like they're as important to the show as Skye's. This is what ensemble shows do. They have balls in the air for all the characters at once.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:38 AM   #518
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
This scene didn't reveal anything new about the story we'd just seen or set up anything about future episodes. The only thing it revealed is "Sam Jackson is willing to do cameos." I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.
Perhaps they're just setting up that he can and will appear on the show, and will put him to better use later.

There are two reasons I can think of why Grant Ward is very much not James Bond:

1) He hasn't already slept with Skye and Simmons.

2) He tried to save the enemy soldier from being sucked out of the plane -- and he said under truth serum last week that he didn't feel good about the times he'd had to kill. Bond would've gladly pushed the soldier out of the plane and made a joke about it.
My statement was a bit hyperbolic. Obviously he isn't literally supposed to be James Bond under another name. He is the Bond-type solo troubleshooter/man of action type agent...just as May appears to have been such an agent in the past.

To me, his intro scene in the pilot fairly screamed Bond. Somebody upthread brought up the girl who was focused on for too long. My impression was that they were shooting that scene as if it were one scene in a Bond-style movie that got interrupted, and she was the girl he would've eventually been "pumping for information" later in the story, had that story continued.

1) Consider them his Moneypennys. Traditionally, there's a reason that Bond and Moneypenny don't shag...Bond actually draws a line at office romances (or respects the line that M has drawn). I'm sure you can bring up an exception or three in the films...so many creators, so many interpretations.

And I'd be surprised if Ward and Skye don't wind up becoming a couple at some point. But given that this is the very beginning of a TV series rather than a two-hour movie, they'll play out the "will they or won't they" angle.

2) As written by Fleming, Bond very much didn't enjoy killing. It was his job, but he didn't take pleasure in it. Think of Timothy Dalton (the actor who deliberately played it closest to Fleming) saying, "If [M] fires me, I'll thank him for it."

Also, this is an 8 p.m. network show that takes place in a superhero universe...under the same circumstances, even Bond would be going out of his way to save his enemies.

(At least you didn't go for the too-obvious "He's not British.")

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Are Fitz and Simmons brother and sister or boyfriend and girlfriend?
I can just imagine the pillow talk....

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I thought that sealing the hole in the plane with the life raft was iffy even as a stop-gap, but they sure weren't in any hurry to leave that compromised cabin once the crisis had passed.
At least they didn't use mashed potatoes....

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
Bringing the Peruvian soldiers aboard was an obvious security risk. It was disappointing that they were able to take over the plane so easily, and that no one really took precautions against that obvious possibility.
Very much agreed.

If SHIELD isn't tracking Skye's phone messages, they really are stupid.
Maybe they are....

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
"Hey, we've captured the plane, what should we do with these hostages... I know, let's put them together, with the ability to talk to each other... nothing possibly could go wrong there!"
They were together and not closely guarded because the idea was that they could all get dumped out the rear hatch at a moment's notice. And the hijackers were underestimating the team's abilities.

DarKush wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
^ EDIT: great minds yada yada

I hope they do something to make Wendy and Marvin more interesting in future episodes.
Wendy and Marvin. Ha! Good one.
I've taken to thinking of them as the Hobbits....

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Meh 2 is our entry point into this universe, she even was the first voice we heard.
I think the first voice we heard in this universe was Tony Stark's, if you don't count the singer from AC/DC.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
When Phil is revealed as a Life Model Decoy, the others are not going to follow him any more than they would a toaster.
The question is, will Ward bash his head in with a flashlight...?

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
I really hope the show develops and moves past the dumb teenage/young attractive adults CW type show that rely on the hotness of the actors rather than engaging storylines.
It's already so much better than that crap, IMO. I stuck it out for Smallville way too long...if this had shown any signs of being that teen angsty crap, I wouldn't have finished the pilot.
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Old October 3 2013, 12:41 AM   #519
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post

So focus on Coulson and Ming-Na and ignore Things One And Two and the Wonder Twins. I've always found it easier to sit through a Joss Whedon series if I ignore about half the cast.
It would be easier to ignore if they just weren't there. And basically your advice is to ignore 50% of a show.

Or, Meh 1 and Meh 2 could've been better cast.
True, but since they weren't, and that's not changing any time soon, your choices are to compensate or stop wasting your time with the series.

And since I'm basically only watching the thing for Phil Coulson anyway, ignoring 50% of the cast isn't all that difficult for me.
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Old October 3 2013, 01:01 AM   #520
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

DarKush wrote: View Post
I hope we run across other teams as the series progresses and see how Coulson's team interacts with them.
If we see a similar team, Coulson's counterpart has to be played by Jack Coleman!
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Old October 3 2013, 01:18 AM   #521
Guy Gardener
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

What about A.I.M?

Hmmm... Oh, they were in Iron Man III after a fashion.

Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?
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Old October 3 2013, 02:18 AM   #522
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Now that's more like it. The first episode was bland, but the second is everything that I was hoping for.
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Old October 3 2013, 02:27 AM   #523
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Guy Gardener wrote:
Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?
The interesting bit is when you consider what happened approximately 1500 years ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

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Old October 3 2013, 02:37 AM   #524
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I enjoyed "0-8-4" a lot. The Fury cameo was fun, but I was hoping for something a little more ominous or foreshadow-y.

ETA: One nit-- I thought that sealing the hole in the plane with the life raft was iffy even as a stop-gap, but they sure weren't in any hurry to leave that compromised cabin once the crisis had passed.
The scene was technically completely unrealistic anyway. You don't get sucked out of planes like that when a cabin loses pressure (just ask Squiggy). But it's a trope at least as old as Goldfinger, so I'm not going to complain.
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Old October 3 2013, 02:40 AM   #525
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

For what it's worth it'd be "blown" out, not sucked.
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