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Old May 1 2014, 04:34 AM   #5206
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

^ I took it that he was resigning from the project or, alternatively, that he was going to resign and convinced to stay. He obviously did not resign.

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think they did previously reference Blonsky as being at the Fridge...but would Garrett be stupid enough to release him if he had no means of controlling him...?
No they didn't, they said "cryo-cell in Alaska." The "Alaska" part may be why you're thinking it's the Fridge, but the Fridge is obviously not in Alaska.
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Old May 1 2014, 04:38 AM   #5207
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't think it was "fake" -- well, except in the sense that it's an imaginary story about people who don't exist. I think it was a chance for Skye to prove that she's a better person than Ward and Garrett.
But why make Skye a better person. Why not let Skye be awful and see how that develops the character.

I think it's important to give heroes chances to show why they're better than the villains. I'll never understand shows that have protagonists who are just as lethal and cruel and ruthless as their enemies. Why should we root for them in that case?
Because comic books and TV shows like AoS are about empowerment fantasy and beating and killing thugs in the name of justice makes you "the good guy".

What makes them better? In that case it might as well just be a story about gang warfare, with the sides picked arbitrarily.
It's part of our tribal instincts to pick a side and root for them. Hence that's why Americans are the good guys even though we murder children with drones.

The MCU has been frustratingly lacking in protagonists who show regard for human life, so I'll take that show of basic human decency any way I can get it.
In a society where torture is okay, I'll live with my heroes just being selectively violent.

He didn't resign from SHIELD, he stepped down from oversight of that specific project and recommended its cancellation.
If you can, you should watch the show again. Coulson said he was handing in his resignation. It's not clear though if it's from SHIELD or that specific project.
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Old May 1 2014, 04:44 AM   #5208
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Yes, as I argued myself earlier in the discussion. But there's merit in the counterargument too. However they may have evolved,
HYDRA hasn't evolved, the writers have made them a generic bad guy organization. Like I said before, HYDRA has a goal and a method but they don't have ideology (unless you consider the fact that they are as sophisticated as school yard bullies). Making them racist anti-Semites would at least make them more interesting.
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Old May 1 2014, 10:18 AM   #5209
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Although I seem to recall a promo pic that had Hill and Coulson hugging, but don't recall that happening in the episode (which is a shame, Coulson could use a hug).
Deleted scene.
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Old May 1 2014, 10:31 AM   #5210
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Well, this was a pretty good episode. This new approach may work out, if they don't drag it out too long. I'm glad May is back and Coulson has realized how childish he was-- that was painful to watch. Hopefully that whole thing will now be dropped.

Skye was really great in this episode, from leaving a message behind, to playing Ward, to tipping off the police. If it wasn't for Deathlok, she would have pulled it off. I loved Fitz's freak out reaction to Ward-- he had bonded with Ward on that mission in a way that only someone with few friends can. The exchange between him and Simmons has me a little worried-- making Simmons HYDRA would be one of the stupidest things they could do. I'm liking Triplett more and more, so I hope they don't screw with him either.

The TAHITI revelation was interesting. Does this mean that Coulson and Skye are both now at risk for mental breakdowns? Or does his brain surgery and her 084 status save them?

Yminale wrote: View Post
But why make Skye a better person. Why not let Skye be awful and see how that develops the character.


Because comic books and TV shows like AoS are about empowerment fantasy and beating and killing thugs in the name of justice makes you "the good guy".


It's part of our tribal instincts to pick a side and root for them. Hence that's why Americans are the good guys even though we murder children with drones.


In a society where torture is okay, I'll live with my heroes just being selectively violent.
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Old May 1 2014, 10:43 AM   #5211
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think they did previously reference Blonsky as being at the Fridge...but would Garrett be stupid enough to release him if he had no means of controlling him...?
No they didn't, they said "cryo-cell in Alaska." The "Alaska" part may be why you're thinking it's the Fridge, but the Fridge is obviously not in Alaska.
Ah, that's right, it was Alaska not The Fridge. Still, you have to think that some Hydra faction or another is going to try to grab him. If not to immediately use, then at least to prevent anyone else using him against them. After all, he is still a soldier and Ross apparently believed he could be reasoned with enough to get him to cooperate.
Failing that, there are other means of control. I mean that memory implant machine at the Guest House couldn't have been one of a kind, could it? There's also good old fashioned bribery...oh and of course they do have Loki's staff.
If nothing else he's still a means of access to the super-soldier serum in his blood.
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Old May 1 2014, 11:16 AM   #5212
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yminale wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
... What makes them better? In that case it might as well just be a story about gang warfare, with the sides picked arbitrarily.
It's part of our tribal instincts to pick a side and root for them. Hence that's why Americans are the good guys even though we murder children with drones.
First of all, their are a lot of people who don't consider Americans the good guys, including Americans. Second, the bushmen of Madagascar don't pick sides and welcome outsiders (for a time before sending them away) and they are as tribal as you can get. It's our culture that's trained to pick sides, not instincts. Third,
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Old May 1 2014, 11:48 AM   #5213
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Americans are usually lovely.

America is a giant machine that wants results.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:14 PM   #5214
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yminale wrote: View Post
He didn't resign from SHIELD, he stepped down from oversight of that specific project and recommended its cancellation.
If you can, you should watch the show again. Coulson said he was handing in his resignation. It's not clear though if it's from SHIELD or that specific project.
Well we only saw one half of that conversation; we're missing Fury's response. It's likely he was resigning from SHIELD, but Fury didn't accept his resignation and instead took his advice and shut down TAHITI.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:41 PM   #5215
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Coulson's death ultimately united the Avengers. Coupled with Hydra working alongside SHIELD, he may fear the Avengers might disband should his secret of being alive comes out.
Sorry but that is not only completely unsupported by any dialogue from Coulson, it is not a good story.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:43 PM   #5216
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
... What makes them better? In that case it might as well just be a story about gang warfare, with the sides picked arbitrarily.
It's part of our tribal instincts to pick a side and root for them. Hence that's why Americans are the good guys even though we murder children with drones.
First of all, their are a lot of people who don't consider Americans the good guys, including Americans. Second, the bushmen of Madagascar don't pick sides and welcome outsiders (for a time before sending them away) and they are as tribal as you can get. It's our culture that's trained to pick sides, not instincts. Third,
Thank goodness you made that a spoiler, I doubt any board members want that plotline revealed in advance.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:43 PM   #5217
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yminale wrote: View Post
But why make Skye a better person. Why not let Skye be awful and see how that develops the character.
TV is full of awful protagonists. We're well past the point where that's in any way original or interesting. I miss heroes.


Because comic books and TV shows like AoS are about empowerment fantasy and beating and killing thugs in the name of justice makes you "the good guy".
You've obviously read very different comic books than I have. It's "With great power comes great responsibility," not "With great power comes a great power trip."


If you can, you should watch the show again. Coulson said he was handing in his resignation. It's not clear though if it's from SHIELD or that specific project.
Yes, that's consistent with what I said. I said "stepping down," but that's just a different way of phrasing it.



dansigal wrote: View Post
Well we only saw one half of that conversation; we're missing Fury's response. It's likely he was resigning from SHIELD, but Fury didn't accept his resignation and instead took his advice and shut down TAHITI.
I'd actually call that rather unlikely. Coulson's very loyal to SHIELD and believes in what it stands for. Fury and Coulson tried something with benevolent intentions, but it went horribly wrong and Coulson wanted it to be abandoned. That doesn't mean he'd lost faith in the entire organization.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:47 PM   #5218
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Although I seem to recall a promo pic that had Hill and Coulson hugging, but don't recall that happening in the episode (which is a shame, Coulson could use a hug).
Deleted scene.
Was it a deleted scene or did the actors just feel like hugging?
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Old May 1 2014, 02:20 PM   #5219
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

It could've been an alternate take of a scene that was in the episode -- e.g. they tried one version where Coulson and Hill's reunion was warmer and one where it was more tense, and ended up going with the tenser version.
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Old May 1 2014, 02:37 PM   #5220
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
dansigal wrote: View Post
Well we only saw one half of that conversation; we're missing Fury's response. It's likely he was resigning from SHIELD, but Fury didn't accept his resignation and instead took his advice and shut down TAHITI.
I'd actually call that rather unlikely. Coulson's very loyal to SHIELD and believes in what it stands for. Fury and Coulson tried something with benevolent intentions, but it went horribly wrong and Coulson wanted it to be abandoned. That doesn't mean he'd lost faith in the entire organization.
You don't say you're resigning if you want to be taken off a project. You say... i want to be taken off the project. I don't think you got how messed up Coulson thinks the Tahiti project was. he was so disturbed by it that he would have nothing to do with it. And if SHIELD was adamant that project was a legit course of action, and insisted on continuing the program, Coulson was finished. An organization that would go down that path is not what Coulson signed up for. It's very Hyrda-ish. Obviously, Fury put Coulson's fears to rest and he didn't resign. Of course, Fury also bullshit him as we know.
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