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Old April 30 2014, 07:12 PM   #5176
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

So regarding Tahiti, Coulson was in charge. But then resigned. And then died. And then was brought back by Tahiti. On someone's orders other than Fury's.

Do I have that right? So the question is, who gave the order to revive Coulson?



But I don't think that's the case.
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Old April 30 2014, 07:16 PM   #5177
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

cylkoth wrote: View Post
I'm half expecting in Avengers 2, that he'll walk thru the door, and the team doesn't blink...because they figured it out already, and he'll go "awww nutz!"
lol

Stark/Banner: "we are pretty smart, you know..."
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Old April 30 2014, 08:16 PM   #5178
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
I liked J. August Richards enough in Angel but I can't help but think that Deathlok could be better served with a different actor. He just doesn't has a strong enough look or presence for the part IMO.
Yeah same, loved hin on Angel. But I can't help thinking Deathlok just looks very... well "TV." I can't see him ever being used in a movie for example. Almost feel like he needs to be more "big bulked up bastard" kinda thing.



Great episode though, and indeed all the recent ones.

Here's a question- will people here be buying the eventual Season 1 DVD/Blu-ray boxset to watch them all again? Does the higher quality of recent episodes outweigh the lower quality of the first 10 episodes or so (as I can't say I'd be that bothered about watching some of them again)



also ps. Do Marvel/Disney now have the rights to Man-Thing or is it still Lionsgate?
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Old April 30 2014, 08:17 PM   #5179
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
(In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)
Well Raina was already fine with an organization that performs inhumane experiments on people have been known to kill them and has no problem killing its members when ever they stop being of use, fail them too many times, or are just a loose end that needs to be tied up.

So I'm not seeing how HYDRA'a nazis connection is going to be a big deal to her.
Actually Raina's already been showing doubts. She thought she was working for a clairvoyant, someone who could give her the answer to some deeply personal question. Thus she was willing to do a lot of unethical things to get the answers. But now she's found out she's working for someone very different than she'd believed. She could well be redeemable.


And as for Mike Peterson having a bomb in his head and HYRDA willing to kill his son the moment he turns on them kind of is good insurance that he doesn't betray them.
A lot of people were willing to sacrifice their lives to fight the Nazis. Sure, Mike would need some assurance that his son was safe, but it might be possible to persuade him if enough arguments are brought to bear, and the Nazi ties are one argument that could help.


bbjeg wrote: View Post
So they lost the base and the bus in one episode? I have no idea how they are going to bounce back at this point.
They still have Lola! And a pool!



sojourner wrote: View Post
Hope Talbot doesn't turn into the Jack McGee of the show. Always turning up just in time to chase our main characters out of town.
That would be an appropriate role for Talbot, though, since in the comics he's a guy relentlessly pursuing the Hulk and constantly failing to catch him.
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Old April 30 2014, 08:20 PM   #5180
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post

That would be an appropriate role for Talbot, though, since in the comics he's a guy relentlessly pursuing the Hulk and constantly failing to catch him.
Reminds me of the A Team
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Old April 30 2014, 08:42 PM   #5181
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
She could well be redeemable.
She was coldblooded enough to play a guy into volunteering for experiments that were going to kill him, threatened to murder a child, blow up up a man and possibly had him converted into a cybernetic hitman, and has no problem killing people she works with the moment they aren't useful anymore.

There is no coming back from that.

Sure, Mike would need some assurance that his son was safe,
He already said he wouldn't believe them.

but it might be possible to persuade him if enough arguments are brought to bear, and the Nazi ties are one argument that could help.
Only if he believe's Garrett gives a crap about HYDRA's Nazis ties seeing as 1) The current version of HYDRA seems to have dropped them for the most part, and 2) (and most importantly) He doesn't, he's just backing the winning side.

Lets remember this isn't so much traditional HYDRA as Garrett's private army after Pierce died.

Besides I'm pretty everyone in the MCU probably already knows Red Skull used to belong to the Nazis Party so it would probably be old news anyway.
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Old April 30 2014, 08:47 PM   #5182
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
So they lost the base and the bus in one episode? I have no idea how they are going to bounce back at this point.
They still have Lola! And a pool!
I just remembered, they still have a smaller passenger jet and the location of the bus, until the transponder is removed.

And a few screens:

Major Glenn Talbot: BMF.


Deathlok, not Mike.


Lola in action.


And Coulson's "Wait, what?" face.

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Old April 30 2014, 09:21 PM   #5183
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

cylkoth wrote: View Post
Agreed. The pitfall of being in a shared universe, where the movies taken precedence. It makes no sense for the show to maintain Coulson's dead status to the The Avengers. Allies connected to several are aware-and have known for some time, that Phil's alive. Sif knows, so why keep Thor in the dark...Maria Hill now works for Stark, so why can't Tony be told? Too many SHIELD agents know...It's the second worst kept secret ever. But he 'died' in the movie, so it can't be overridden by the series.

I'm half expecting in Avengers 2, that he'll walk thru the door, and the team doesn't blink...because they figured it out already, and he'll go "awww nutz!"
I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)

Having said that, it seems at odds with Sif's appearance as you'd think she'd mention that he was already on Midgard, or at least no longer living at home.

As for the rest...yes Romanov, Rogers and Barton were in SHIELD, but it's been very well established how compartmentalised Fury kept things. Any agent who knew Coulson was still alive, wouldn't volunteer that information to another agent who didn't already know unless specifically authorised to do so (unless they're both really Hydra double-agents of course.) It's pretty fundamental to any intelligence operative's training.

As for right now, Cap is himself off the grid so he's in no position to find out unless Coulson shows up on CNN. Romanov appears to be very much in the public eye along with Hill (perhaps now also working with Stark?) so it's conceivable she'll find out before long depending on how tight lipped Hill decides to be.
Barton...well AFAIK we know nothing about his actions or whereabouts since the end of Avengers, so it's hard to say. Going by Selvig's condition in Thor 2, it's possible he also suffered some long term effects of the staff and so has been out of action ever since. Indeed, his absence in TWS felt rather conspicuous. I mean they didn't even give him a throwaway line like "Barton's still in a coma" or "still on that deep cover assignment".

But yeah, Stark not knowing for much longer seems to stretch credibility a bit, especially given the data dump and his having access to quite possible more raw processing power than any other single person on earth. Plus JARVIS.

Presumably Banner is still at Avengers Tower in New York, so in that regard what Stark knows, he probably knows as and when.

kitik wrote: View Post
So regarding Tahiti, Coulson was in charge. But then resigned. And then died. And then was brought back by Tahiti. On someone's orders other than Fury's.

Do I have that right? So the question is, who gave the order to revive Coulson?
My read on it is that Fury ordered the procedure, but it was Coulson's standing recommendation that dictated the use of false memory implants and mind-wipes.

Personally, I'm curious as to who else they were trying this on. Did any of them survive? Were the psychotics ones put down or taken to the fridge?

Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:46 PM   #5184
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
She could well be redeemable.
She was coldblooded enough to play a guy into volunteering for experiments that were going to kill him, threatened to murder a child, blow up up a man and possibly had him converted into a cybernetic hitman, and has no problem killing people she works with the moment they aren't useful anymore.

There is no coming back from that.
Akela and Mike did similarly awful things, and they were under coercion. As I already pointed out, we learned recently that Raina seems to have some deep personal need that she expected "the Clairvoyant" to fill. For all we know, she's just as trapped as Mike is, driven to save or find someone dear to her and willing to make a deal with the devil in exchange. I'm not saying she'll ever be a candidate for sainthood, but now that she already feels betrayed and disappointed to discover that Garrett's clairvoyance was a lie, it's possible she could turn on him given the right incentive.


Sure, Mike would need some assurance that his son was safe,
He already said he wouldn't believe them.
As the past few weeks should make overwhelmingly clear, the status quo at a given moment in the series cannot predict how things might change in the future -- and how characters might change in response. Heck, if characters always reacted in an exactly predictable and unvarying way, they'd have no arcs, and modern TV storytelling is all about arcs. Mike has already gone from aspiring superhero to rage-fueled maniac to gung-ho SHIELD trainee to entrapped pawn of Centipede to ruthless Terminator. He's changed a great deal over the course of the season, so we can't rule out further changes.

Indeed, why set up Deathlok as a sympathetic character and a victim to begin with if all they wanted was a one-note villain with no prospect of redemption? They wouldn't develop him to this point and then just stop.



Besides I'm pretty everyone in the MCU probably already knows Red Skull used to belong to the Nazis Party so it would probably be old news anyway.
People often try to fool themselves and gloss over uncomfortable truths they don't want to face. Forcing them to acknowledge and confront those truths can influence their decisions. Thousands and thousands of works of fiction have climaxed with one character forcing another to confront a truth they didn't want to face, to stop lying to themselves and admit what was really going on.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:57 PM   #5185
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Reverend wrote: View Post
Barton...well AFAIK we know nothing about his actions or whereabouts since the end of Avengers, so it's hard to say. Going by Selvig's condition in Thor 2, it's possible he also suffered some long term effects of the staff and so has been out of action ever since. Indeed, his absence in TWS felt rather conspicuous. I mean they didn't even give him a throwaway line like "Barton's still in a coma" or "still on that deep cover assignment".
From what I've heard, there was a line in TWS mentioning Barton's whereabouts, but the scene in which it took place was cut. Maybe it'll be on the Blu-ray.
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Old April 30 2014, 10:14 PM   #5186
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I'm a bit frustrated that they still haven't properly identified the "Guest House" alien. I kind of hope that if it is in fact Kree, then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will use it as part of a direct crossover with Guardians of the Galaxy. But how? Guardians of the Galaxy comes out in August before the fall TV season.

Last edited by Enterprise1701; April 30 2014 at 10:33 PM.
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Old April 30 2014, 10:30 PM   #5187
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Ethros wrote: View Post
also ps. Do Marvel/Disney now have the rights to Man-Thing or is it still Lionsgate?
Also back at Marvel Studios.

I was rewatching Avengers last night and the scene where Steve is watching the iPad video of the Hulk and asking about Banner Coulson mentions in that exchange "a lot of guys did". Referring to working with the serum post Erskine.
Clearly Ted Sallis can now fit into that blanket statement anytime a TV show/film might want to incorporate him.

Also, see Uncanny Avengers Annual #1(out today) for Man-Thing's inclusion on the Dr.Strange lead Avengers of the Supernatural.
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Old April 30 2014, 11:02 PM   #5188
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, it had Ward claim that modern HYDRA has nothing to do with the Nazis, but it came off as pretty feeble and unconvincing, like he was making excuses for belonging to a group with more malevolent roots than he's willing to admit. I'm glad, in fact, that Skye did stress the organization's links to the Nazis, because it's something that needs to be said. (In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)
I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

Reverend wrote: View Post
I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)
I think that's true (although exactly when he arrived is unclear, just that it was some time later).
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Old April 30 2014, 11:44 PM   #5189
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Really, I thought that Ward had never considered that he was a Nazi.

And then when he did right then, there was a massive internal facepalm.

Clark Gregg was on @midnight last was a celebrity narrator reading a creepy Craig's list ad.
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Old May 1 2014, 12:16 AM   #5190
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, it had Ward claim that modern HYDRA has nothing to do with the Nazis, but it came off as pretty feeble and unconvincing, like he was making excuses for belonging to a group with more malevolent roots than he's willing to admit. I'm glad, in fact, that Skye did stress the organization's links to the Nazis, because it's something that needs to be said. (In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)
I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.
Pretty much I think. To my mind it's similar to the attitude of Kevin Bacon's character from 'X-Men: First Class'; that the Nazi ideal of the ideal "supreme human" is pitifully narrow minded.

Doesn't mean they're in any arbitrary way "better" than Nazis, just that they have more imagination and, as Zola pointed out, they actually have the capability to achieve their insane plans.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)
I think that's true (although exactly when he arrived is unclear, just that it was some time later).
Couldn't have been that long after. The next day maybe? It's not like he'd have a reason to stick around long after his little talk with "Odin".

For one thing it's established that SHIELD developed the ability to track an approaching bifrost portal, presumably after the events in Greewich. If Thor had returned much later then you'd think they'd have at least known someone from Asgard had arrived in London.

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I'm a bit frustrated that they still haven't properly identified the "Guest House" alien. I kind of hope that if it is in fact Kree, then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will use it as part of a direct crossover with Guardians of the Galaxy. But how? Guardians of the Galaxy comes out in August before the fall TV season.
Maybe they'll pick up a thread left at the end of the movie? Or maybe the crossover (because it's a foregone conclusion, no?) will be more oblique like the Lady Sif episode.

Personally I'm not at all frustrated. They've just dropped several bombshells, so i think it's fair to let that little mystery remain for a while. You can't expect them to reveal *everything* before the end of the season.

Besides it's obviously a Kree.
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