RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 143,171
Posts: 5,598,013
Members: 25,399
Currently online: 520
Newest member: BlueMoon

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: When It Rains…
By: Michelle on Feb 27

Nimoy Dead At Eighty-Three
By: T'Bonz on Feb 27

Breaking news: Leonard Nimoy – ‘Mr Spock’ – dies aged 83
By: AntonyF on Feb 27

Hurley Passes
By: T'Bonz on Feb 26

USS Excelsior Model Coming Soon
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Hemsworth To Host SNL
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Quinto To Guest Star On HBO Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Wheaton To Voice Firefly Game
By: T'Bonz on Feb 24

Nimoy Health Scare
By: T'Bonz on Feb 24

Star Trek #42 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Feb 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy All your nerd stuff goes here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 16 2014, 02:44 AM   #4591
DEWLine
Commodore
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Send a message via AIM to DEWLine Send a message via Yahoo to DEWLine
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Best dinner money Garrett will have ever spent.
__________________
Yours,

Dwight Williams
Illustrator/Writer
DEWLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 02:47 AM   #4592
kitik
Commander
 
kitik's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
John Garrett is the best.

"How did HYDRA know you were coming."
"We told them"
*Shots*
"A little warning next time?"
"Sorry, I couldn't resist. The one-liner was too good."

Put your arms down Kaminski!
kitik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 02:57 AM   #4593
DEWLine
Commodore
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Send a message via AIM to DEWLine Send a message via Yahoo to DEWLine
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

And the next battleground...
__________________
Yours,

Dwight Williams
Illustrator/Writer
DEWLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:01 AM   #4594
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Looking at "Turn, Turn, Turn" again, knowing what I know now, I can see the clues that Ward was working with Garrett. When Ward arrived after the others had decided Hand was the Clairvoyant, the first thing Garrett did was make a point of drawing Ward aside to tell him "Hand is the Clairvoyant," as if to make sure they had their cover story straight. And then it was Garrett who suggested to Ward that he suggest preserving their most secure data on the hard drive. He was directing Ward the whole time.

And he was completely unsurprised when Ward shot the guards. Hand was startled, but Garrett just casually turned his head to look.


As for "Providence": Well, it seems to take place before the closing scenes of TWS, because the Congressional hearings haven't begun yet. I wonder how long it'll take to catch up.

Anyway, I like it that Glenn Talbot's reputation precedes him -- Coulson knows about his aggressive tactics. I can imagine that he has an unseen history of hunting the Hulk alongside Thunderbolt Ross.

And I love it that the entry into the secret HYDRA base was through a descending barbershop chair, homaging the entry into SHIELD's New York HQ in the original Nick Fury comics.

I'm pleased that I misjudged Raina. I said earlier today that there was no reason to think she wasn't aware of the nature and goals of her employers. But she really was a true believer in the Clairvoyant's "powers" and it meant something to her. She's working with the bad guys, but she's an idealist in her own way. She's becoming a much more interesting and sympathetic character here, and I'm intrigued.

And we're starting to see how all the "standalone" episodes before do have a payoff. Now HYDRA has all the gadgets and artifacts accumulated over the season, and the gravitonium as well.

It's a clever bit of story structuring to put the mysterious coordinates in Coulson's SHIELD badge, so when he brandishes the badge and says "This has to mean something," it has a double meaning. Nice moment.

And ooh boy, lanyards!
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog

Last edited by Christopher; April 16 2014 at 03:12 AM.
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:04 AM   #4595
DEWLine
Commodore
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Send a message via AIM to DEWLine Send a message via Yahoo to DEWLine
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yeah, those lanyards. ;-)

Looks like Jonathan Hickman's getting his material seriously riffed here. "Agents of Nothing", Providence...
__________________
Yours,

Dwight Williams
Illustrator/Writer
DEWLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:10 AM   #4596
LaxScrutiny
Commodore
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

In real life people do what they do. In stories, things have a point.

There is no point in Ward being loyal to Garrett no matter what. Ward is then an extension of Garrett, just a duplicate, in terms of story.

Ward is working for Garrett now, and certainly has been all along. But he will betray Garrett, or else story-wise, he is really just nothing but Garrett's extension probing into Coulson's holes.

Ward is set up with a conflicting loyalty to Skye and to Garrett. He will attempt to exploit Skye. The trouble is, if Skye is completely fooled, then Skye is ultimately weak and flawed and not the hero she is being built up to be.

So Skye and Ward have to come to terms for both characterizations to have integrity. This confrontation will have to be Ward's downfall and sacrifice, and it will lift Skye up to her potential.

Or I could be full of shit.
LaxScrutiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:13 AM   #4597
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
I'm pleased that I misjudged Raina. I said earlier today that there was no reason to think she wasn't aware of the nature and goals of her employers. But she really was a true believer in the Clairvoyant's "powers" and it meant something to her. She's working with the bad guys, but she's an idealist in her own way. She's becoming a much more interesting and sympathetic character here, and I'm intrigued.
Yeah. The fact that she was also tortured and brainwashed by the machine that Coulson was subjected to is another layer to her character.

It's a clever bit of story structuring to put the mysterious coordinates in Coulson's SHIELD badge, so when he brandishes the badge and says "This has to mean something," it has a double meaning. Nice moment.
Didn't think about that. Good catch.

And ooh boy, lanyards!
Does anyone think Patton Oswald was a bit wasted, though? Hope that isn't it. I thought the episode was great until that point, but I was expecting more.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:14 AM   #4598
kitik
Commander
 
kitik's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Looking at "Turn, Turn, Turn" again, knowing what I know now, I can see the clues that Ward was working with Garrett. When Ward arrived after the others had decided Hand was the Clairvoyant, the first thing Garrett did was make a point of drawing Ward aside to tell him "Hand is the Clairvoyant,"
Yeah, that was pretty blatant on the rewatch tonight.


As for the people suggesting that Ward might still be a good guy who's just really deep undercover, can I assume that tonight's episode removed any last glimmer of hope from your minds? Guards in the elevator are dead, he looted pretty much everything from the Fridge.



Interesting that both Raina and Quinn were upset that Garrett wasn't really clairvoyant. Could those two possibly betray Garrett later on, or were their reactions meant to mirror the audience's reaction to finding out that he wasn't really clairvoyant.

And speaking of which, Shield kept insisting all season long that there's no such thing as psychic powers. That's still gotta come into play at some point, doesn't it? Some real clairvoyant is still going to show up.


Also, it doesn't look like they're going to save all the supervillain hints and stuff they've been dropping each episode until a future season, it feels like Garrett wants to unleash it all now.

How many episodes are left this season, 4?
kitik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:16 AM   #4599
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I totally would like someone with real psychic powers, but there's nobody good that's already established.

The closest we get is Raina, who seems to have natural powers to manipulate and influence people.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:16 AM   #4600
kitik
Commander
 
kitik's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Does anyone think Patton Oswald was a bit wasted, though? Hope that isn't it.
He was in the preview for next week.
kitik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:37 AM   #4601
Masiral
Captain
 
Location: I'm here. Where are you?
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

kitik wrote: View Post
As for the people suggesting that Ward might still be a good guy who's just really deep undercover, can I assume that tonight's episode removed any last glimmer of hope from your minds? Guards in the elevator are dead, he looted pretty much everything from the Fridge.
He even looted the secret level that Garrett didn't even know about, which would be unnecessary if he was really a good guy.
Masiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 03:47 AM   #4602
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
There is no point in Ward being loyal to Garrett no matter what. Ward is then an extension of Garrett, just a duplicate, in terms of story.

Ward is working for Garrett now, and certainly has been all along. But he will betray Garrett, or else story-wise, he is really just nothing but Garrett's extension probing into Coulson's holes.
Not at all. Characters don't have to betray each other to have differences of perspective or motivation, or to have tension and conflict. Look at how much diversity there is among the (loyal) members of Coulson's team.


Ward is set up with a conflicting loyalty to Skye and to Garrett. He will attempt to exploit Skye. The trouble is, if Skye is completely fooled, then Skye is ultimately weak and flawed and not the hero she is being built up to be.

So Skye and Ward have to come to terms for both characterizations to have integrity. This confrontation will have to be Ward's downfall and sacrifice, and it will lift Skye up to her potential.
That's hardly the only possibility. Just because she learns of his betrayal, that doesn't mean they'd come to terms or that it would bring his downfall. I mean, why would Ward's exposure mean his downfall under the circumstances? He's on the stronger side. Coulson's team is on the run, with no authority. Once they find out Ward is their enemy, that won't neutralize him as a threat; it'll just make him an overt threat. Skye could rise to her potential by foiling his plans, but he could get away to menace them another day.

In fact, the preview for next week appears to show
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 04:03 AM   #4603
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I totally would like someone with real psychic powers, but there's nobody good that's already established.
Skye would be an obvious choice.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 04:06 AM   #4604
Enterprise1701
Fleet Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2015 C.E.
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I hope Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s viewership goes back up. These episodes prove that the show can have a really compelling story.
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I totally would like someone with real psychic powers, but there's nobody good that's already established.
kitik wrote: View Post
As for the people suggesting that Ward might still be a good guy who's just really deep undercover, can I assume that tonight's episode removed any last glimmer of hope from your minds? Guards in the elevator are dead, he looted pretty much everything from the Fridge.

And speaking of which, Shield kept insisting all season long that there's no such thing as psychic powers. That's still gotta come into play at some point, doesn't it? Some real clairvoyant is still going to show up.
I guess her powers don't count as psychic only as psionic but

I suppose since this is Marvel, we can't totally rule out that Ward is somehow Fury's deep-deep-deep-deep-deep cover spy, but that just seems like an unfair story tactic. Then again we just saw Garrett lead the looting of ALL of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s goodies.

So how many S.H.I.E.L.D. bases are we up to now? Triskelion, Hub, Treehouse, Sandbox, Fridge, Cube, the Academies, Guest House, Providence?
Enterprise1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 04:13 AM   #4605
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

kitik wrote: View Post
Interesting that both Raina and Quinn were upset that Garrett wasn't really clairvoyant. Could those two possibly betray Garrett later on, or were their reactions meant to mirror the audience's reaction to finding out that he wasn't really clairvoyant.
Raina might come around and help the good guys. She's a sympathetic enough character that I'd like to see her redeem herself. Quinn, though, is just a greedy opportunist. Any resentment he felt evaporated the moment Garrett gave him the gravitonium. He'll side with whoever gives him power, and that's not going to be Coulson's team.


And speaking of which, Shield kept insisting all season long that there's no such thing as psychic powers. That's still gotta come into play at some point, doesn't it? Some real clairvoyant is still going to show up.
Not necessarily. I think that it was "in play" all along as a clue that the so-called "Clairvoyant" was nothing of the kind. So it's already had its payoff.

Then again, we now know from the movie that Dr. Strange exists in the MCU and SHIELD knows about him. Does magic fall into the same category as psionics in Marvel terms, or are they assumed to be two different things? I guess Thor already established that what we see as magic is really Asgardian science, the physics and technology of other dimensional planes. So they could fit Dr. Strange in that way.


Also, it doesn't look like they're going to save all the supervillain hints and stuff they've been dropping each episode until a future season, it feels like Garrett wants to unleash it all now.
I'm reminded of the "Breakout" opening of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, where all the supervillains were broken out at once to provide both an incentive for the Avengers to assemble and a rogues' gallery to challenge them throughout the series. No doubt a bunch of the people Garrett and Ward broke out are going to show up as villains in future episodes.


How many episodes are left this season, 4?
Yup. So probably only some of what we're seeing here will pay off this season, and the rest is set up for the next.



Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
The closest we get is Raina, who seems to have natural powers to manipulate and influence people.
That's not psionics, just charm.


Masiral wrote: View Post
kitik wrote: View Post
As for the people suggesting that Ward might still be a good guy who's just really deep undercover, can I assume that tonight's episode removed any last glimmer of hope from your minds? Guards in the elevator are dead, he looted pretty much everything from the Fridge.
He even looted the secret level that Garrett didn't even know about, which would be unnecessary if he was really a good guy.
Good point. But I bet some people are still going to try to rationalize it as necessary sacrifices to protect a realllllly deep cover, or something. Or at least argue that he has divided loyalties and will eventually come around and help the good guys -- which is possible, I suppose.

But it does conclusively scuttle the idea that he only just switched sides recently.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
marvel, marvel cinematic universe, shield, the avengers

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.