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Old April 9 2014, 09:43 PM   #4381
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
So is the shield team absolved from killing those two guards for Skye? Garrett and Ward shot them (a Ward shot the cameras).
Oh, good catch. Maybe that was another clue that they were really not nice people. It'll be fun to go back through the season and look for such clues.
It shouldn't absolve them. None of the team has clean hands. Of the four who went in, Fitz was the only one who didn't fire a weapon, but he got them past doors, which he knew weren't being opened for parleying, and he carried and produced a flash-bang-type thing on request, which he knew wasn't just for show and which was used to create the opportunity to mortally wound one of the guards. Fitz is just as guilty as any of them. Coulson gave tactical orders and fired his weapon, and all four of them knew what they were doing.

Coulson made it clear he feels remorse, and under his leadership, the team has appropriately acted so that the guards' sacrifice won't be in vain. Even if it turns out that two (or more) of Coulson's team were evil, it would be wrong for the rest of them to scapegoat the evil members and lay all the blame on the evil members' shoulders, for actions they all cooperated in carrying out.
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Old April 9 2014, 09:48 PM   #4382
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

As for the absolution thing, we still don't know whose facility that was, or who those guards were working for. For all we know, it could have been a Hydra facility that was compartmentalized out of Garrett's need-to-know...if SHIELD can have so much secrecy and intrigue within its ranks, can we expect any less of a Hydra that's been living inside SHIELD?
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Old April 9 2014, 09:59 PM   #4383
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Marsden wrote: View Post
I really thought Victoria was going to be Madame Hydra.


I guess it's possible that Ward didn't kill her, I remember an episode of Mission Impossible where the whole team was inflitrated and Barney ( I think) killed everyone with fake bullets.
Fake bullets don't put bloody holes in people's skulls.
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Old April 9 2014, 10:36 PM   #4384
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
So is the shield team absolved from killing those two guards for Skye? Garrett and Ward shot them (a Ward shot the cameras).
Oh, good catch. Maybe that was another clue that they were really not nice people. It'll be fun to go back through the season and look for such clues.

From a new Q&A with Jed and Maurissa...


And then in "Seeds," there's a really nice moment where Skye is standing at the wall of valor, and we hear Coulson's voice off-camera saying that the world is full of evil, pain, lies and death -- and the camera pans and lands on Ward when he says "lies" and "evil."
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Old April 9 2014, 10:36 PM   #4385
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Sure but it then leaves Agents in a kind of limbo having to twist its own story to that of the movie. Now with Hydra it worked because it was planned from the beginning to lead up to this but i wonder what kind of stories Agents can tell for an entire season safely so as to not step on movie continuity?
The Marvel Universe is a big place. Deep Space Nine was able to tell stories that didn't step on The Next Generation's continuity. The various CSI shows are able to maintain independent storylines.

And sure, AoS will have to adjust its plotlines to adapt to whatever happens in the movies, but that's no different from what individual Marvel comic titles have to do when a big crossover event like Civil War or Spider Island happens. The goal of the MCU has been to bring the storytelling style of the comics to the screen, and this is a part of it -- except now it's the TV shows that fill the role of the regular monthly titles, and the movies that fill the role of the massive miniseries or crossover events.


I hope they have also planned for this and pull off a seamless handover to Avengers 2 and back to Agents when the time comes in a year for the movie.
What I've heard is that



The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I imagine that the TV people would be informed by the movie people as to how the state of SHIELD will be depicted in the next Avengers film, such that AoS could tailor their storyline to get to that point.
Certainly. It takes far longer to make a movie than it does to make a TV series. The producers of AoS knew about the script to TWS as soon as they went into production, so they've been knowingly building toward this point all season. For any future movie, they'll probably have up to a year's advance notice, enough time to gear an entire season toward setting up the movie, if there's a need to.


They also have an out in that SHIELD was never terribly open in the first place, so what Coulson and company have been up to in the meantime may not be known to the characters in the Avengers 2.
It just struck me that what May said about Fury's reasons for assigning her to spy on Coulson might explain why his resurrection hasn't been revealed to the Avengers. May and the team were meant to keep an eye on Coulson and be prepared if something went wrong with his resurrection. That means Fury wasn't sure it would actually work, and that the jury's still out on that issue. So maybe Fury doesn't want to tell Stark and Cap and the others that Coulson's back and then get the call that Coulson's turned into a zombie and May had to take him down when he tried to eat Fitz's brain. He wants to keep the secret until he's sure Phil really is back for good.

Although


Indeed, the fact that Coulson is still considered dead as far as the movies are concerned is a perfect example of the principle that the films are meant to work independently of the show, that the overt influence goes in only one direction. The show is designed to be an optional piece of the puzzle, something that can be added to the picture but that still leaves a complete and coherent picture if it's left out.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:21 PM   #4386
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I'm disappointed that Hand is dead now like
. I mean, come on, they were among the only characters from the comics that were on the show!
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Old April 9 2014, 11:22 PM   #4387
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Great episode and some great twists that really kept people guessing.

Does this partly explain why we haven't heard anything about whether the show will be renewed for next season? Just announcing that it would continue would be kind of a spoiler. Or for that matter, announcing that it would be brought back but with a new name (Ex-Agents of Shield or whatever) would be hugely spoilerific.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:34 PM   #4388
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Certainly. It takes far longer to make a movie than it does to make a TV series. The producers of AoS knew about the script to TWS as soon as they went into production, so they've been knowingly building toward this point all season. For any future movie, they'll probably have up to a year's advance notice, enough time to gear an entire season toward setting up the movie, if there's a need to.
In the case of Avengers 2, I believe it's already in production, so they must have a script available to go by in deciding what to do with AoS through next season.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:39 PM   #4389
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

This boggles my brain.

Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.

So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:52 PM   #4390
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Mr Light wrote: View Post
This boggles my brain.

Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.

So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
There was a lot of hype that the episode would cross over with TWS, so perhaps viewers who haven't seen the movie yet didn't watch?
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Old April 10 2014, 12:02 AM   #4391
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Mr Light wrote: View Post
This boggles my brain.

Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.

So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
People who haven't seen the movie yet weren't (or shouldn't have been) watching.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:04 AM   #4392
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
This was my attempt at a timeline: Link (obviously has spoilers for TWS). It's not clean. It basically suggests that HYDRA was moving worldwide to eliminate agents even when events at Triskelion suggested things weren't too bad.



The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
A variation on my last suggestion would be that Ward's loyalties are strictly personal, not ideological, and are currently divided between Garrett and Coulson's team. He went with Garrett to save Garrett's life, again having no qualms against killing Hand and her people. The rest might play out pretty much as I described before, with the added benefit that if Ward wasn't previously affiliated with Hydra per se, his status as a recruit would give Garrett and company an excuse for exposition to the audience via Ward.
That's sort of my take. Certainly, I think he's loyal to Garrett personally, not HYDRA. I'm desperately trying to remember Garrett's line to Skye last week. It was specifically about loyalty to your SO and talking about Skye having loyalty to Ward. Then he finished the sentence with "Turn, Turn, Turn." This isn't something that should be hard to find, but there's too much noise in a google search.

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I'm disappointed that Hand is dead now like
. I mean, come on, they were among the only characters from the comics that were on the show!
Well, there's John Garrett, who's a comic creation as well
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Last edited by Alidar Jarok; April 10 2014 at 12:15 AM.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:52 AM   #4393
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Why are people quoting my "a Ward shot the cameras" instead of my edited "and Ward shot the cameras".

Christopher wrote: View Post
...
It just struck me that what May said about Fury's reasons for assigning her to spy on Coulson might explain why his resurrection hasn't been revealed to the Avengers. May and the team were meant to keep an eye on Coulson and be prepared if something went wrong with his resurrection. That means Fury wasn't sure it would actually work, and that the jury's still out on that issue. So maybe Fury doesn't want to tell Stark and Cap and the others that Coulson's back and then get the call that Coulson's turned into a zombie and May had to take him down when he tried to eat Fitz's brain. He wants to keep the secret until he's sure Phil really is back for good...
So that's how The Walking Dead virus started.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I'm disappointed that Hand is dead now like
. I mean, come on, they were among the only characters from the comics that were on the show!
Well, there's John Garrett, who's a comic creation as well
Not to mention Deathlok, -

Last edited by bbjeg; April 10 2014 at 01:40 AM.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:58 AM   #4394
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
So is the shield team absolved from killing those two guards for Skye? Garrett and Ward shot them (a Ward shot the cameras).
Oh, good catch. Maybe that was another clue that they were really not nice people. It'll be fun to go back through the season and look for such clues.

From a new Q&A with Jed and Maurissa...


And then in "Seeds," there's a really nice moment where Skye is standing at the wall of valor, and we hear Coulson's voice off-camera saying that the world is full of evil, pain, lies and death -- and the camera pans and lands on Ward when he says "lies" and "evil."
Noticed while doing some rewatching:

"I'm a bit of a sweet talker when I need to be. You wouldn't believe what I could talk this son of a gun into"

Garrett, talking to Coulson about Ward, on his first appearence on T.A.H.I.T.I.
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Old April 10 2014, 01:31 AM   #4395
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

10 years ago, in the comics, because the Kree had been utterly done over by te detonation of a negabomb, they'd been relegated to gypsie trash that could never rebuild... In Avengers comics there was a story called "Live Kree or Die." which was about a stunt where the Kree where adapting/infecting... Humaniforming (kreeforming?) 5 and a half billion Earthlings into Kree.

Which is a blip compared to what introducing Skrull flesh onto the food table did to America after Reed Richards lost track of some skrulls he hypnotized into believing that they were cows.

Oh, and some guy fucked a monkey in the 80s, which turned out to be an awful idea in retrospect.
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