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Old February 17 2014, 07:15 PM   #3061
Christopher
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
It depends on how the narrative portrays the person. In this case, the narrative portrays the person as a villain. Are you not getting this or are you just playing devil's advocate?
Hold on there, you're overlooking something. The narrative portrays the person as a villain so far, but stories often lead us in one direction at first and then turn things around to surprise us. Characters who seem to be villains can turn out to be well-intentioned extremists, or to be working toward some positive goal that requires harsh methods to bring it about.

I'm not saying I believe that's the case here, but just in general, it's dangerous to assume that what a narrative has led us to believe up to this point represents the final truth of the narrative. Stories often mislead their audiences intentionally.
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Old February 17 2014, 08:18 PM   #3062
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Narrators lie?
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Old February 17 2014, 10:19 PM   #3063
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I was supposing that if Claire Voyant, the Golden Age Black Widow, was our Clairevoyant that she was herself actually being used as a tool of Centipede. Not the actual villain. It's Centipede whose implanting the eye control/bomb devices and morally questionable acts. Against her will Claire is being forced to participate and give them information. Part of her wiki article mentioned some psychic abilities along with invulnerability and immortality. So a 30/40ish actress could be cast in the role.
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Old February 17 2014, 10:31 PM   #3064
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
It depends on how the narrative portrays the person. In this case, the narrative portrays the person as a villain. Are you not getting this or are you just playing devil's advocate?
Hold on there, you're overlooking something. The narrative portrays the person as a villain so far, but stories often lead us in one direction at first and then turn things around to surprise us. Characters who seem to be villains can turn out to be well-intentioned extremists, or to be working toward some positive goal that requires harsh methods to bring it about.

I'm not saying I believe that's the case here, but just in general, it's dangerous to assume that what a narrative has led us to believe up to this point represents the final truth of the narrative. Stories often mislead their audiences intentionally.
I'm all for a morally ambiguous villain that believes she's doing it for the greater good, just not with a comic book character who has always been good.
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Old February 17 2014, 11:36 PM   #3065
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I guess the clairvoyant must be someone we have already met.
I was thinking if there is a person in shield who could be it. or if it's just one of the established bad guys.
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Old February 17 2014, 11:46 PM   #3066
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I'm all for a morally ambiguous villain that believes she's doing it for the greater good, just not with a comic book character who has always been good.
I wasn't addressing that idea at all. Of course it's not going to be some obscure Golden Age character named "Claire Voyant" -- that's not even worth taking seriously as a possibility. I was just addressing what you said: "It depends on how the narrative portrays the person. In this case, the narrative portrays the person as a villain. Are you not getting this or are you just playing devil's advocate?" You were assuming that the way an unfinished story portrays a character is the final truth about that character, and that's simply not a valid assumption, given how often stories rely on surprise and misdirection. It's certainly not legitimate grounds for shooting down Vendikarr's position as decisively as you did.
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Old February 17 2014, 11:46 PM   #3067
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I could see it being someone in SHIELD, but short of Hand, I doubt it's anyone we've met. I'm optimistic that it's an established comic book villain, but we'll have to wait and see.
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Old February 17 2014, 11:58 PM   #3068
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

My writer-sense tells me not to dismiss the frequent assertions about psi powers not existing. I doubt they'd drive that idea home so emphatically and repeatedly if it were just going to turn out to be an error on the characters' part. It might therefore be a clue that we should doubt the "Clairvoyant"'s alleged powers. The claim of clairvoyance could be a front to conceal a different source of inside information, such as being a SHIELD mole. So yes, I think Victoria Hand is a strong candidate.

And if it is a mole, I wonder if there will be a tie-in to The Winter Soldier in some way.
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Old February 18 2014, 12:51 AM   #3069
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

The other way to read those statements is foreshadowing that they were dead wrong there. That being said, it feels to much like esp to be esp, imo.
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Old February 18 2014, 01:01 AM   #3070
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Sothsying and telepathy do not have to be intimately associated.

Remember Prince of Darkness?

Everyone that falls asleep in this church has the same dream about the end of the world.

What if Zarko the Tomorrow Man is transmitting data into an agents face fr0m the not so distant future?
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Old February 18 2014, 01:15 AM   #3071
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I think I put this out there somewhere way upthread, but it's possible that SHIELD has or had a psi division (as in the comics), and that the conspicuous party line about psi powers being unproven is due to the division's uber-high security level. The Clairvoyant could be a rogue operative from this division.

I like the basic concept of the Clairvoyant intending to serve the greater good by preventing a horrible future, but don't think that specifically making the character an extremely obscure Golden Age hero serves any purpose.
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Old February 18 2014, 01:33 AM   #3072
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

There are certainly a lot of possibilities open at this point. I like it when the villain turns out to actually believe that he or she is the hero or savior. This was a great interpretation for Lex Luthor, for example, that thankfully is still being used in the comics. It makes him a much more interesting character.

As for the ESP, I think it was stated that there are no documented cases of such. This is odd because there are many psis in the Marvel universe even when removing the X-Men from the equation. I had thought that the Clairvoyant could have actually been from the future (a future Coulson perhaps?) in which case it could also be a hero turned bad as has been done several times in Marvel comics.

It could also be that the Clairvoyant, or psis in general, have erased people's memories of their existence. This could be very interesting if one of the effects of Coulson's recovery is to make him immune to psionic powers.

But if it does turn out to be the original Black Widow then congrats to the poster who originally came up with the idea!
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Old February 18 2014, 01:35 AM   #3073
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

If they even think about using the words "Charles Xavier" they yet sued.
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Old February 18 2014, 01:59 AM   #3074
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

theenglish wrote: View Post
As for the ESP, I think it was stated that there are no documented cases of such. This is odd because there are many psis in the Marvel universe even when removing the X-Men from the equation.
It's not odd to me. This isn't the Marvel Universe, it's the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's a new creation based on the comics, taking what it wants and excluding or reinventing the rest. It's geared toward a more general audience and thus has consistently tried to keep things relatively grounded. Heroes rarely use their code names. Asgardians and dark elves are aliens rather than supernatural beings. Virtually all superpowers are the result of technology. The Mandarin is an actor.

Sure, they've been gradually adding more fantastic elements as they went, starting with the Asgardians, and we know that magic will eventually be introduced care of Doctor Strange, if Iron Fist doesn't beat him to it. But because the MCU is geared toward the general audience rather than the comics-savvy audience, it needs to ease the viewers into the more fantastic things. So the avoidance of psi powers at this stage fits right into that. It's exactly what I would've expected them to do.
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Old February 18 2014, 02:02 AM   #3075
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

What if the Clairvoyant is somehow connected to Skye's origin?
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