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Old January 12 2014, 12:49 AM   #2536
Jolaris
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I thought the level clearance about Coulsons death went something like this:
1-6 - Don't know he died, so they assume he is alive.
7 - Knew he died and thinks he is still dead.
8 - Knew he died and knows he is now alive.

So the only people who would be surprised to see him would be those few who are at level 7...
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Old January 12 2014, 12:55 AM   #2537
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

IIRC, in the pilot Ward said that he knew Coulson was dead because he was Level 6...then Coulson steps out of the shadows and says, "Welcome to Level 7." So the implication is that 5 and below don't know Coulson died; 6 thinks he's still dead; 7 and above know he's still alive.

Though the clearance for knowing that Coulson is around may have lowered since he got so active in the field.
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Old January 12 2014, 02:56 AM   #2538
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Given the way the Bus has been bouncing all over the planet since the series started, the security clearance for need-to-know on that point has got to have been lowered somewhat.
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Old January 12 2014, 02:58 AM   #2539
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

But if the 5's and below never knew he'd died anyway, that would really only screw up the 6's...plus super-heroes and cellists.
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Old January 12 2014, 11:10 AM   #2540
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Everybody with Level 7 and above has clearance to know he's alive-- but that doesn't mean they've been told he's alive if they don't need to know.
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Old January 12 2014, 12:29 PM   #2541
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Their "Level" system is so ill-defined. In The Consultant, Sitwell was shocked to learn there even was a Level 7. When Loki steals the Tesseract, Fury says, "This is a Level 7. As of right now, we are at war."

This makes it sound like Level seven is pull out the stops, all hands on deck, end of the world type stuff, but then they classify the Overkill Device as level 8 threat? Bigger than the Tesseract? Really?
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Old January 12 2014, 03:27 PM   #2542
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

SHIELD is confusing....Kick their asses, Cap!
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Old January 12 2014, 05:35 PM   #2543
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Their "Level" system is so ill-defined. In The Consultant, Sitwell was shocked to learn there even was a Level 7. When Loki steals the Tesseract, Fury says, "This is a Level 7. As of right now, we are at war."

This makes it sound like Level seven is pull out the stops, all hands on deck, end of the world type stuff, but then they classify the Overkill Device as level 8 threat? Bigger than the Tesseract? Really?
I think there are two different rating systems at work here. Security clearance level and emergency level (the latter being more akin to a defcon scale.) Though they both use the word "level" and have numbers in them, the two scales need not be equivalent to one another.

Yes its confusing, but this is what happens when writers just want to sound cool and don't give much thought to world building.
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Old January 12 2014, 07:30 PM   #2544
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yeah, I think it's clear they're entirely separate. One is clearance level, the other is threat level. It seems pretty clear that, if something is a threat level 7, more than just level 7 clearance would be involved - it'll be an all hands on deck type situation. To make it clearer, Threat Level 7 seems to be analogous to DEFCON 1, while Level 8 Clearance seems to be analogous to "Top Secret" clearance (although both seem to rely on Compartmentalizing information, so they'll have Special Access Programs on top of the levels of secrecy).

The clearance level thing, iirc, was created in the one shots and adopted into the series as a major component. Threat level was only said in the Avengers, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think the Overkill device required SHIELD to be at Threat Level 8 based on any dialog and I agree that the Tesseract is more significant of a threat than the Overkill device. The Overkill device had a high level of clearance because it involved sensitive political issues and was a covert operation, not because it was the more serious threat (which, as I said, would seem to necessitate greater sharing of information, not less).

I'll agree that the terminology is confusing, but, unless I'm misremembering something from The Hub, the terms have at least been kept separate and are, by themselves, relatively logical.
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Old January 13 2014, 01:13 AM   #2545
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

It seems I remembered my security levels wrong, my bad.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I don't think the Overkill device required SHIELD to be at Threat Level 8 based on any dialog and I agree that the Tesseract is more significant of a threat than the Overkill device.
Indeed, shouldn't the threat level for the Tesseract have been... *puts on sunglasses* Infinity...
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Old January 13 2014, 03:12 AM   #2546
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Anyway...

I think the whole bringing back Coulson back from the dead is leading to something about how comics never truly kill off characters. Normally this would be a Wheldonesque farce but as portrayed it's pretty dark and disturbing.

Plus why did Fury bring him back? It's not like SHIELD needs super-agents since they have Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Mei around. Could it have something to do with Skye?
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Old January 13 2014, 03:27 AM   #2547
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:44 AM   #2548
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.
There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend. He was at best a competent field agent (who more often than not got over his head).

I have a crazy idea about the big reveal. Coulson is not the only one SHIELD brought back from the dead, the ENTIRE TEAM at one time or another was brought back from the DEAD. That agent Skye thinks is her mother is actually HER and they somehow regenerated her body. Mei actually DIED during "the Calvary" mission and that's why she failed to save anyone. Ward mentioned that his brother tried to drown him. Maybe he succeeded and SHIELD brought him back when he died as a child. Fitz-Simmons, victims of some lab experiment gone wrong (Tesseract explosion ?). Coulson was the latest in a long line of successful experiments and Fury wanted to see how they interact with each other (and also to keep them in one place to watch over them).
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Old January 13 2014, 03:49 AM   #2549
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

^ There's no indication they aren't friends, though, it's just silent either way. I'm not entirely sure Fury has "friends" (at least in the sense that the other person is aware they are his friend).

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.
Why does it have to be Asgardian? Is there anything from the comics about Asgardians resurrecting the dead? It certainly could be alien, don't get me wrong, but calling it "Asgardian" is becoming a crutch in too many fan theories.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:54 AM   #2550
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Re: Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Why does it have to be Asgardian? Is there anything from the comics about Asgardians resurrecting the dead? It certainly could be alien, don't get me wrong, but calling it "Asgardian" is becoming a crutch in too many fan theories.
Yeah fans seem to forget about another possibility, HYDRA! They may have experimented with resurrection technology and we don't know what happened to Arnim Zola after the first Captain America movie.

Plus resurrection technology is a logical offshoot of Super-Soldier experiments. That's probably why CENTIPEDE was so interested.
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