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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 25 2013, 10:33 PM   #16
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

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Old September 27 2013, 03:19 AM   #17
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

I was very negative about the Khan route being pursued initially, but really is a true Catch-22. You make him Khan, you get complaints that you used Khan. You make him a Khan knockoff, you get complaints that you didn't use Khan.
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Old September 27 2013, 07:33 AM   #18
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

So many good ideas here, just why did the writers have to mess the story up the way they did! Seriously, they took their time with this movie, and all they could come up with was ... this?
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Old September 28 2013, 07:07 AM   #19
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

It's frankly partly the fault of the fans, who frequently trumpet Khan and TWOK as the best. You think the studio's not going to notice? People are just upset that they didn't get the Khan they pictured.
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Old September 28 2013, 10:30 AM   #20
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

what about if theyd had Khan (Montalban CG) revealed at the end? (with Harrison searching for him)

Khan wouldve been like the Ark in Raiders or the alien at the end of Crystal Skull or the engineer in Prometheus. something mystical/mythical, frightening, too dangerous to awaken

the whole film would be building toward the climax and the reveal...are they going to show Khan and if they do who will it be (some Latino guy like Del Toro or Barhem?) then whoa big surprise its the REAL Khan (CG 1967 Space Seed Montalban) who would either then be awakened by Harrison and Khan rampage finale like 'Arnie' in T4 or the engineer in Prometheus (as that would’ve been cool), or wed just see him in the cryo pod and thats all

in fact i had hoped that would be a twist of the film anyway - he was lying he was khan (Joachim or a specially created supersoldier) and all along hed been trying to find the real Khan who was still in a freeze pod in some secret Section 31 base in San Fran and thats where he was trying to get to at the end - leading to him finally locating his master…

i was still kind of expecting something like that right at the end when we see Cumberbatch in the cryo pod - the camera would pan across and wed see 1967 Montalban in the next pod (an in joke for the fans...non fans would just think BC was Khan)...then wed see the Botany Bay in the background
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Old September 28 2013, 11:27 AM   #21
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

^But why can't he just be Khan? Scotty has a much lighter build and less hair that his future self, McCoy is a beefcake when he "should" be scrawny. The Botany Bay crew are in pods when in the original they were slots built into the walls. Khan and Carol have British accents now. So what? He was excellent as Khan, IMO.

It's like arguing that The Joker in The Dark Knight wasn't the REAL Joker, but some guy who uses his name and that Jack Nicholson's Joker is still out there somewhere.
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Old September 28 2013, 11:32 AM   #22
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Making Kirk captain only takes a moment. How does one create a fully grown adult augment in a year?
How did Phlox grow a fully adult clone of Trip in a matter of days?
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Old September 29 2013, 03:06 AM   #23
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

The problem with the whole Khan thing is that it's meaningless to non-fans, especially when it's dropped into the movie in Exposition Mode in the middle of the second act where it ends up not serving the story in an organic way.
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Old September 29 2013, 09:26 AM   #24
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

I think it would have been a excellent twist to find out that Cumberbatch was just an offspring of the real Kahn. And then show Ricardo Montalban (CG) in a cryo tube at the end as the last reveal.
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Old September 29 2013, 03:23 PM   #25
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

The worst thing is for non fans who happen to browse the DVD isle for a new film to buy for movie night is the bright sparks at Paramount decided to blow the twist right there on the cover which is a down right bizzare thing to do.

Then again this is the same company who announced 'the death of the Enterprise' while advertising STIII and if they were involved with Star Wars would have put "Luke I am your father!" into the promos!
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Old September 29 2013, 04:00 PM   #26
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

starburst wrote: View Post
"Luke I am your father!"
"NO, Luke. I am your father."
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Old September 29 2013, 10:08 PM   #27
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

How far off are we from creating a CG realistic Ricardo Montalban and swapping out Benedict Cumberbatch's face anyway?
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Old September 29 2013, 10:33 PM   #28
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

I'd argue that Season 4 of Enterprise as a whole had an influence on STID.

Augments!

Section 31!

Interference by the Augments/Section 31 threatening a war with the Klingons!

Peter Weller as a human villain!

A shocking terrorist bombing starting up the plot! (Earth Embassy on Vulcan vs. Starfleet installation in London)


And I think at least some of the people behind nuTrek (Orci/Kurtzman?) have already outed themselves as ENT fans by including the Archer/Porthos reference in Trek2009 and placing the NX-Alpha prototype and NX-01 models in Admiral Marcus' office in STID.

It's my personal theory that Orci and Kurtzman watched the 4th season of Enterprise, then they watched The Wrath of Khan and then they started to write the script for STID.
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Old September 29 2013, 10:39 PM   #29
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

^
exactly - i doubt hardly anyone outside of Trek fandom would have watched any of Enterprise too so they get away with it!
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Old September 30 2013, 12:44 AM   #30
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Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

Mach5 wrote: View Post
starburst wrote: View Post
"Luke I am your father!"
"NO, Luke. I am your father."
"NO. I am your father."
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 30 2013 at 12:54 AM.
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