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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: borg for Trek 3
yes. 34 22.67%
no. 105 70.00%
save them for ST 4 (if there is one) 11 7.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 9 2014, 06:53 PM   #196
The Wormhole
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
In the 24th century, the Borg are not at all picky, they'll assimilate anything more sophisticated than a talking ape.
Actually, didn't they pass on Assimilating The Kazon?
Indeed, they did.
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Old June 9 2014, 07:09 PM   #197
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Not only no, but as we used to say in NYC, FOK no.
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Old June 13 2014, 02:21 AM   #198
Robert_T_April
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Why do people keep bringing up the Borg?
The Federation doesn't make contact with the Borg for well over 100 years!...and that's only because Q accelerated that by several decades.
The story in the next Trek needs to centered around the Klingons as Into Darkness set up. How totally ridiculous would it be to "shoe horn" the Borg into the next movie? I would be embarrassed for the producers and writers, and Paramount if that were the case. Not to mention, totally disgusted!
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Old June 13 2014, 02:47 PM   #199
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Robert_T_April wrote: View Post
Why do people keep bringing up the Borg?
The Federation doesn't make contact with the Borg for well over 100 years!...and that's only because Q accelerated that by several decades.
The story in the next Trek needs to centered around the Klingons as Into Darkness set up. How totally ridiculous would it be to "shoe horn" the Borg into the next movie? I would be embarrassed for the producers and writers, and Paramount if that were the case. Not to mention, totally disgusted!
Actually, it makes complete sense the Borg would be in the next movie. Khan was already shoe-horned into STID for supposed marketing reasons, and thus the Borg could just as easily be in the next movie for the same marketing reasons. That is among the non-fans and casual fans they are rather recognizable. Hell, ask any random person on the street what the word assimilate means and they'll likely answer "what those Borg guys in Star Trek do" even if they're not Trekkies. The Borg have a catchphrase which I'm sure Bad Robot will love mangling the hell out of. And finally, zombies are at the moment "cool" so Orci likely will want his Trek movie to fit in with the current cool standards. Besides, what STID set-up with the Klingons has already been dealt with in the comics, making it clear there are no plans to go there with Trek XIII otherwise Orci wouldn't have signed off on it.
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Old June 13 2014, 03:54 PM   #200
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

What must be considered in Trek 50th anniversary? The Original Series? A little of everything? A villain specifically or more villians? I think the Borg would be very scary (using 3D effects) but there is a dark side also, no-win scenario and this was approached in STID. In my opinion, ST3 likely would center on Klingons. They are well known villians. Borgs, not so much. By the way, Klingons were presented in last film.

Damon Lindelof offers one hint: "You can never see enough Klingons, and I think in this film we've Given the audience a little taste, but there's a promise que Also there's a larger conflict on the horizon, and would be fun to que see. "
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Old June 13 2014, 10:28 PM   #201
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Does anyone know where the El-Aurian system is supposed to be located, other than "well beyond Federation space"? In the Prime timeline during this period, the El-Aurian homeworld was being assimilated and many of the El-Aurians wiped out by the Borg. Is there any reason to suppose the Borg would not be similarly occupied in the alternate reality, far away from any place visited by Starfleet and likely somewhere deep in the Delta Quadrant?
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Old June 14 2014, 01:04 AM   #202
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

ralph wrote: View Post
They are well known villians. Borgs, not so much.
The most popular TNG film was First Contact. Plus, they haven't been overused on the big screen. They also represent crossover appeal because of their zombie-like nature.

Damon Lindelof offers one hint: "You can never see enough Klingons, and I think in this film we've Given the audience a little taste, but there's a promise que Also there's a larger conflict on the horizon, and would be fun to que see. "
Lindelof is not part of the Star Trek 3 writing team.
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Old June 14 2014, 11:33 AM   #203
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

The Borg's crossover appeal also comes from the fact that they are such an overwhelming and unexpected enemy that no matter who meets them for the first time, it is going to be an extraordinary deadly adventure that's going to make some good cinema.

It is harder to mess up. Even ENT: Regeneration was exciting to watch. And having 21st century humans like Lily meet them in First Contact was, in my mind, even better than the Enterprise D meeting them in Q Who. I don't think they are going to pass on the chance to have Star Trek's first crew have their own first encounter with the Borg, which is going to be something. I don't think you can go wrong with it.

Voyager messed it up because we and the crew got to know them, plus they approached the matter in the wrong way and rushed through the suspense. Which is not to say I didn't love when Janeway met Seven in ENT: Relativity - that's another thing I find appealing when it comes to firsts, and another reason I want Voyager rebooted and done right (call me weird).

But the formidable, relentless enemy you just meet that defies any expectations is far from overused, it hasn't been used enough, not even on the small screen. To fuck it up now, you'd have to give them an utterly dismal treatment – which given the first two films ain't gonna happen. Which is another thing that Voyager missed doing – encounter worlds just facing the Borg and get assimilated, and be powerless to do anything – like VOY: Dreadnought without the happy ending.

If you think the Borg are a bad idea presently, just wait until future film makers decide to do the time travel stories Borg in WW2, Edith Keeler is Borg, Borg in the Wild West, Borg and the American Revolution, Borg and the Spanish Inquisition, Borg and the Romans, Borg on Apollo 13. I fully expect that those will happen before I die, and I also fully expect that some of them will end up being my guilty pleasures.

ETA: I do prefer an original story without an old enemy. But the Borg – which are very likely - will work splendidly.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:23 PM   #204
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

I'm hardly one to romanticize Trek's past, but should the ST movie released during the 50th anniversary of Trek really be a shoot 'em up movie, with either the Borg or Klingons? Is that in keeping with the overall popular image and themes of Trek? Those that Trek sells and lets people believe? Optimism. Exploration. Mystery. Imagination. Good humor. It compromises those things on its 50th anniversary by presenting basically a war movie?

Further, STID ended on a high note. Why drag everything down in the next movie with the dark and featureless Borg, or a battle with the Klingons?

If it's the Borg, how do you top what Picard and his crew did in FC? The Borg are Picard's. Would we want Picard to meet Khan? Would it be as poignant as Khan and Kirk? Where's the poignancy in Kirk meeting the Borg? The beauty of FC is it was built up to by events in TNG. That part would be missing from Kirk v. Borg.

If some people thought shoe-horning Khan into STID was contrived, wait until they see the Borg with Kirk. And please don't anyone say that it could be done if they just take care to "do it the right way." By that logic, there is a way they could pull off Kirk and Spock meeting Moe, Larry, and Curly.

In my opinion, the best homage to Trek would be a nice little TOS style morality play, not too deep, not too serious, with an antagonist of the type they tended to meet in TOS. Not all evil. Not all good. Someone that challenges the crew in some way as much as endangers them. So, I'd say if it's going to be Klingons, then make it an "Errand of Mercy" style story. A conflict that addresses the war of ideas, not a real all out war.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:25 PM   #205
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post

ETA: I do prefer an original story without an old enemy. But the Borg – which are very likely - will work splendidly.
I'd rather the Borg than the Klingons, to be honest. The Klingons were overexposed on the small and big screen over the last thirty years.

Though Kirk has to destroy them with a logical paradox. Any other way would just seem wrong.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:32 PM   #206
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Franklin wrote: View Post
The Borg are Picard's. Would we want Picard to meet Khan?
I'd have no issue with a Picard vs. Khan story (I actually wrote one back in the mid-90's, where Picard battled Khan in an alternate-21st century. ). I'd have no issue with a Picard vs. Dominion story. Why would I have an issue with Kirk vs. the Borg?

If the story is solid (see: "Regeneration"), I have no issue with mixing Trek elements.

Plus, I think you can do one hell of an "evils of technology" vs. the "need for technology" story.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:45 PM   #207
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
The Borg are Picard's. Would we want Picard to meet Khan?
I'd have no issue with a Picard vs. Khan story (I actually wrote one back in the mid-90's, where Picard battled Khan in an alternate-21st century. ). I'd have no issue with a Picard vs. Dominion story. Why would I have an issue with Kirk vs. the Borg?

If the story is solid (see: "Regeneration"), I have no issue with mixing Trek elements.
What made the story work for me in FC was the history Picard had with the Borg. The movie reminded everyone of it in the first thirty seconds. FC became Picard's "Obsession". Imagine FC without that subplot. Picard's personal conflict carried that story. Comparatively, TOS v. the Borg would be emotionally flat, in my opinion. It would be like Picard going after Khan in TWOK instead of Kirk.

Now, I'll be in the theater either way. And who knows? I do remember rolling my eyes and thinking, "my God," in 1985 when I heard the Trek movie coming out in 1986 was about saving the whales. That turned out OK.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:49 PM   #208
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

The Borg are popular, and they are really interesting and effective enemy. You need a good story to explain why they're meeting the Enterprise crew so early in history, but I'm sure something can be worked out. I'd also think it wouldn't be that hard - and it would be important - to give Kirk and/or Spock and co. a personal investment in the story against the Borg. Let the Borg take out a space station or ship early on and kill some one or someones important to the leads. Heck, this is a bold thought, but what if the Borg assimilated the new Vulcan colony? That would make their threat very personal and releavent. Of course, some Vulcans could escape, but there's some interesting pathos and drama if Spock were the last full Vulcan.
I can't help but think that this could tie in somehow with the rumor of casting for a young Deanna Troi. Time travel thrown into the mix.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:58 PM   #209
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

borgboy wrote:
there's some interesting pathos and drama if Spock were the last full Vulcan.
And he's not even full Vulcan!
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Old June 14 2014, 04:26 PM   #210
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

I could see a Borg story with Kirk and Company:

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