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Old September 23 2013, 11:42 PM   #61
jaime
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
jaime wrote: View Post
I notice a trend...the 'get off my lawn' boomers decry 'Berman trek' (which by its nature includes some roddenberry trek, rdm trek, ira trek, Jeri trek.....) because fundamentally they just have an attachment to Kirk as cowboy in space stereotypes. That's why the Abrams movies are ok by them...
Paragraphs please...

Typing on a kindle tablet...it's a pain in the arse, especially when the entry box gets covered...it all looks ok then you hit 'post' and whoosh it's a q net.



*****

For a 'get off my lawn' type, my DVD shelf is surprising full of Trek that isn't The Original Series. Though TOS is my favorite by a rather large margin. The longer that Berman ran the franchise the duller it got. Even on DS9, it felt like a general malaise had set in and people were going through the motions.

I think there's an element of that, but it's not insurmountable, and really only kicks in last three seasons of voyager, and leads to the bad idea that is enterprise. For the movies, it's the script privileges given to well loved actors that break things....that and the bad decisions around nemesis (director, release time, ending on a low note cliffhanger and not picking it up, and wtf worthy make up choices on the remans) but overall I think there's more people than Berman around to get the job done if he's burnt out. I am not sure braga was even suited to trek...he clearly wanted to be working on the x files (which really did go on too long, but died with most genre tv at the turn of the millennium)

The Abrams movies are okay by me for one simple reason: they're entertaining. They're a great tribute to Star Trek (the one from the 60's) and are forging an identity all their own at the same time.
Yeah....I tried to like them. I really did. But STID relied too much on emotional ties people have to the original versions, and just wasted its last half. I was surprised how good it was, since I was annoyed by the waste of winona Ryder in the first one, (ok, mostly I was annoyed by the concept of falling out of a fricking transporter beam and other silly stuff) but then from the moment nimoy makes his Skype call it just falls apart. Badly.

Primarily I should say I did say 'some people' because I do know many of the TOS era fans do love 'golden age' trek too, there just seems to be a vocal group. There also seem to be some very....angry supporters for STID in particular too.

PS there's a ninety per cent chance that me typing this in bed on a kindle with near empty battery, has totally buggered up this post, throw in my unfamiliarity with... I believe it's called bb code...and I can only apologise for any mess, and hope it's readable.
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Old September 23 2013, 11:43 PM   #62
jaime
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Yeah. It's smooshed. sorry. Hopefully people will realise who is saying what in that total mess from previous posts.
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Old September 23 2013, 11:46 PM   #63
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

jaime wrote: View Post

Primarily I should say I did say 'some people' because I do know many of the TOS era fans do love 'golden age' trek too, there just seems to be a vocal group. There also seem to be some very....angry supporters for STID in particular too.
I'm not sure where these angry supporters are at and I've been a member here since 2001. There are some frustrated members who constantly are called ignorant for liking the Abrams films plus are constantly being told that the Abrams films aren't 'Star Trek'. After four years it begins too wear thin.


PS there's a ninety per cent chance that me typing this in bed on a kindle with near empty battery, has totally buggered up this post, throw in my unfamiliarity with... I believe it's called bb code...and I can only apologise for any mess, and hope it's readable.
You're fine.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:05 AM   #64
R. Star
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Opus wrote: View Post

I didn't know 91% meant "all". Must be that 'New Math'.
Nevermind that the people inclined to go seek those polls out and vote in them are for the most part going to be people who liked it anyways. Hardly scientific.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:12 AM   #65
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post

I didn't know 91% meant "all". Must be that 'New Math'.
Nevermind that the people inclined to go seek those polls out and vote in them are for the most part going to be people who liked it anyways. Hardly scientific.
Yet you never challenge "many Trekkies" whenever that's used as evidence that everyone hates the new movies.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:22 AM   #66
R. Star
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post

I didn't know 91% meant "all". Must be that 'New Math'.
Nevermind that the people inclined to go seek those polls out and vote in them are for the most part going to be people who liked it anyways. Hardly scientific.
Yet you never challenge "many Trekkies" whenever that's used as evidence that everyone hates the new movies.
Eh, I've stated before that everyone has the silent majority on their side in these arguments. But if you want to put words in my mouth, go right ahead.
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Old September 24 2013, 12:24 AM   #67
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

R. Star wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

Nevermind that the people inclined to go seek those polls out and vote in them are for the most part going to be people who liked it anyways. Hardly scientific.
Yet you never challenge "many Trekkies" whenever that's used as evidence that everyone hates the new movies.
Eh, I've stated before that everyone has the silent majority on their side in these arguments. But if you want to put words in my mouth, go right ahead.
Wouldn't that be lack of words?
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Old September 24 2013, 12:26 AM   #68
R. Star
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Yet you never challenge "many Trekkies" whenever that's used as evidence that everyone hates the new movies.
Eh, I've stated before that everyone has the silent majority on their side in these arguments. But if you want to put words in my mouth, go right ahead.
Wouldn't that be lack of words?
Sure! News networks do this all the time to politicians, edit out a few words and they say something completely different!
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Old September 24 2013, 12:50 AM   #69
Hober Mallow
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To each his own. For me the Abrams Trek films are mediocre entertainment for an illiterate culture. But they're no worse than any other Hollywood action film.
I consider myself quite well-versed in multiple types of literature (I have and continue to read a lot) and I thought the films were great fun.
I could have worded that better and meant no offense, Bill, to you or anyone else who likes Abrams' Trek. I do think, though, that an illiterate American culture in general has set the bar for entertainment very low for Hollywood action films. On top of that, the general audience has come to expect very little substance from SF films. We take entirely for granted that an intelligent SF plot couldn't possibly work for "the general audience."

Incidentally, Bill, I think I recall you once posting that you used to hate Abrams' Trek films (or at least 09). I'm curious what it was you initially objected to.
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
I certainly feel that: TNG, DS9, VOY are the best of Trek [and TV in general...]. Those three shows contain the best acting, the most intruiging storylines & the most mature writing.
I could not disagree more.

For me, TOS is quite a poor show [I love it], it just isn't written well enough.
So you're saying you're a Star Trek fan who doesn't like Star Trek?
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Old September 24 2013, 01:29 AM   #70
R. Star
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Forbid the concept of Star Trek is limited to Kirk and company, even though TNG, DS9 and Voyager all had more screen time.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:08 AM   #71
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post

Incidentally, Bill, I think I recall you once posting that you used to hate Abrams' Trek films (or at least 09). I'm curious what it was you initially objected to.
You're right.

I was a foaming at the mouth hater when I first saw the 2009 film. Then I went back and started re-watching the various series and realized I was holding Star Trek 2009 to a standard that I never held them too. I was holding it to an impossibly high-standard.

It doesn't mean that there aren't head scratching creative choices that bother me to this day. Like sending enough Red Matter to rearrange the universe when you only need a very small amount to collapse a star.

Then there are some choices that I thought were bad on first glance but after I thought them through they really weren't. Like building the Enterprise on the ground. Did I really think that a society that can manipulate matter and gravity would have any issue putting something that size into orbit? No. In universe, it is entirely likely such a culture would chose to build something like that on the ground.

After reviewing various elements of the franchise I began to realize I had an unhealthy relationship with it. I had forgotten how much fun it could be and was drowning in minutiae. So I had to decide if Star Trek was something I was still watching because I enjoyed it or because I simply had always watched it?

Once I quit having fun with Trek, I'm walking away. I'm not going to waste time years after the fact complaining about something I no longer enjoy. It simply makes no sense, in my opinion.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:09 AM   #72
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Forbid the concept of Star Trek is limited to Kirk and company, even though TNG, DS9 and Voyager all had more screen time.
No it's not just Kirk and Spock. But those two characters are the face of the franchise.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:24 AM   #73
Use of Time
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

The 90's were easily my golden age of Star Trek. I grew up getting two a day reruns of TNG with a fresh DS9 and VOY on Wednesday and Thursday. The novels were being published at a crazy rate and there was a movie every couple of years. I liked Star Trek and there was a shitload of it between 1990-1999. Kind of a no brainer.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:29 AM   #74
Hober Mallow
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Once I quit having fun with Trek, I'm walking away. I'm not going to waste time years after the fact complaining about something I no longer enjoy. It simply makes no sense, in my opinion.
Bill, I have a feeling when it comes to Trek you and I agree on much more than we disagree.
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Old September 24 2013, 02:37 AM   #75
BillJ
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Re: The 90's Golden Age.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post

Bill, I have a feeling when it comes to Trek you and I agree on much more than we disagree.
I love the Abrams films. They are just so much damn fun to watch. But if they switched gears tomorrow and the next movie was something more like Star Trek: The Motion Picture, I'd be there as well. As long as they remember to make it fun and engaging.
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