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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 29 2013, 06:52 PM   #196
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Star Trek - Ludicrous faster-than-light speeds using magic rocks.

Totally Real!

Riiiiiiight....
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Old September 29 2013, 06:56 PM   #197
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Then TOS should get 0 points because very little of it was actually believable
Now, Bill, you're the one moving goalposts. I said writing gets points for moving toward believability, which Trek in fact did do. If you are telling me you think TOS Trek was on the same footing in that regard as Lost in Space, then with greatest respect, I would have to question your credibility as a judge of what "believability" actually means.
Very nice that you clipped my comment mid-sentence...

You know who else had the opportunity to go from Lieutenant to Captain? Number One from "The Cage", something happens to Pike and as first officer she is the next in the line for command. You also had Lieutenant Commander Spock early in season one who was next in line for command and had never even commanded a survey mission before ("The Galileo Seven").

So what exactly is so believable about how TOS handled rank and command in comparison to the Abramsverse?
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Old September 29 2013, 06:57 PM   #198
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
Star Trek - Ludicrous faster-than-light speeds using magic rocks.

Totally Real!
"There's fantastical things happening, so we don't have to worry about believability" is the lamest possible defense of bad SF writing.
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Old September 29 2013, 06:59 PM   #199
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
So what exactly is so believable about how TOS handled rank and command in comparison to the Abramsverse?
Sorry, were either of your examples actually promoted to the rank of Captain? And were they so from the rank of cadet? Your question answers itself.
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Old September 29 2013, 06:59 PM   #200
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

So is holding nuTrek to a standard that the rest of Trek was never held to, like the way military moves around personnel.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:01 PM   #201
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
So is holding nuTrek to a standard that the rest of Trek was never held to
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by just repeating essentially the same sentence? I already responded to this.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:02 PM   #202
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
So what exactly is so believable about how TOS handled rank and command in comparison to the Abramsverse?
Sorry, were either of your examples actually promoted to the rank of Captain? And were they so from the rank of cadet? Your question answers itself.
Actually, rank of Lieutenant as clearly seen in an on-screen graphic (much like Saavik in The Wrath of Khan).

Since you can't or won't answer the question posed:

Starfleet is obviously comfortable with the thought of inexperienced junior officers commanding capital ships or else they wouldn't be in position to command them to begin with.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:03 PM   #203
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
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The Hornblower nonsense is post TOS PR bullshit.
Actually it's in the original series writer's bible. Nice try.
In reference to Robert April, not Kirk. Kirk is more in line with what the studio wanted. Gene himself said the studio was pissed cause they didn't get a western in space, and he had to revamp the show into an action and adventure series or it was done for.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:05 PM   #204
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
So is holding nuTrek to a standard that the rest of Trek was never held to
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by just repeating essentially the same sentence? I already responded to this.
No you haven't, because you keep clipping my posts, as you do to other's posts here.

You contend that Trek has followed military protocol better in the past than nuTrek. Untrue. Military personnel would be moved in and out of all command structures for all the shows, save VOY, instead of continuing to work together as long as they did.

But you enjoy cherrypicking. That's fine.

Don't be surprised as people keep calling you on your bullshit.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:05 PM   #205
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Since you can't or won't answer the question posed
Please don't resort to distortion and dishonesty like this. I've been very clear that I am talking about relative believability. Starfleet being willing to have Lieutenants act as first officer is in no way comparable to promoting cadets to overall charge of an entire command. It's extremely clear which of these more thoroughly violates believability, and I think you're dancing around that.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:07 PM   #206
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
No you haven't., because you keep clipping my posts
I'm not obligated to quote your entire post to respond to relevant parts of it. This is also a lame avoidance tactic.

SeerSGB wrote:
In reference to Robert April, not Kirk.
Quite specifically in reference to Kirk, actually. I can quote the passage for you if you like.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:07 PM   #207
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Kirk was a Lt.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:09 PM   #208
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Opus wrote: View Post
Kirk was a Lt.
In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.
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Old September 29 2013, 07:11 PM   #209
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Since you can't or won't answer the question posed
Please don't resort to distortion and dishonesty like this. I've been very clear that I am talking about relative believability. Starfleet being willing to have Lieutenants act as first officer is in no way comparable to promoting cadets to overall charge of an entire command. It's extremely clear which of these more thoroughly violates believability, and I think you're dancing around that.
It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.

The script for The Menagerie requires that Spock get off scott-free for kidnapping, stealing a starship and going to the planet of death. I'm not sure how many real-world military would react in the same manner. Maybe you can enlighten me?
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Old September 29 2013, 07:11 PM   #210
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
Kirk was a Lt.
In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.
You can be a Lt. and still be a cadet in Trek; we've seen it before.
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