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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 30 2013, 07:55 AM   #16
TJ Sinclair
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
But he had a job that made him the envy of many fanboys.
Funny, every fanboy I've ever known has always hated his guts.
You misunderstand. Many of the people who hate him wished that they had his job. He wielded a lot of power over the licensed tie-ins from 1986 to September 1991..

Christopher wrote: View Post
Those aren't mutually exclusive. "The envy of fanboys" doesn't mean they admired him, it means they wished they had his job. And envy often goes hand in hand with hatred.
Ah, I jumped to soon.

Exactly. Thanks!
Again, I never met anyone that wanted Arnold's job. Most of the people I knew at the time, myself included, believed that his job as "Mr. No-You-Can't-Do-That-In-Star Trek" should never have existed in the first place.
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Old September 30 2013, 02:30 PM   #17
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Re: Peter David comic book story

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Again, I never met anyone that wanted Arnold's job. Most of the people I knew at the time, myself included, believed that his job as "Mr. No-You-Can't-Do-That-In-Star Trek" should never have existed in the first place.
That's the perception created by how he did his job. I'm talking about what the job was in the first place, how it would've been seen before his approach tainted perceptions of it.

I mean, seriously, given how picky so many fans are about how they think Trek continuity should work, I find it impossible to believe that there aren't plenty of Trek fans out there who would've jumped at the chance to get paid to oversee all the tie-ins and ensure their consistency.
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Old September 30 2013, 10:17 PM   #18
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Re: Peter David comic book story

I really think the idea of his job was good, it just seems to me like his way of going about it wasn't really the best.
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Old September 30 2013, 11:18 PM   #19
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Christopher wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Again, I never met anyone that wanted Arnold's job. Most of the people I knew at the time, myself included, believed that his job as "Mr. No-You-Can't-Do-That-In-Star Trek" should never have existed in the first place.
That's the perception created by how he did his job. I'm talking about what the job was in the first place, how it would've been seen before his approach tainted perceptions of it.

I mean, seriously, given how picky so many fans are about how they think Trek continuity should work, I find it impossible to believe that there aren't plenty of Trek fans out there who would've jumped at the chance to get paid to oversee all the tie-ins and ensure their consistency.
Had the post essentially been recognized as simply a "cross-platform script editor" of sorts, sure. But that was not how most fans perceived it. Arnold was the seemingly self-professed "Voice of Gene," who told us we couldn't have nice things.

Explaining what his job was meant to be doesn't negate what I've said. My personal experience of the time was that none of the other Trekkies or Trekkers I knew wanted his job. Some might have been envious of his apparent closeness with Gene, but even they, and many more besides, were increasingly suspect of that supposed closeness, especially as Gene's illness wore on and the desires and wishes Arnold relayed got more and more ludicrous.

The perception I encountered of him was "He's a tool, his job is a crock, and he's intentionally 'miscommunicating' things back and forth between Gene and the licensees and fans."
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Old September 30 2013, 11:26 PM   #20
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Re: Peter David comic book story

^But if people thought he was doing his job wrong, doesn't it logically follow that some of them would've wished they had his job instead so they could do it right? I mean, isn't that always the implied corollary when a person criticizes another person's job? Namely, "I could do that job so much better?"
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Old September 30 2013, 11:34 PM   #21
TJ Sinclair
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Christopher wrote: View Post
^But if people thought he was doing his job wrong, doesn't it logically follow that some of them would've wished they had his job instead so they could do it right? I mean, isn't that always the implied corollary when a person criticizes another person's job? Namely, "I could do that job so much better?"
There may have been. But that still doesn't negate what I said, Christopher. None of the people I knew wanted his job. They felt his job shouldn't exist.

And no, it's certainly not always the implied corollary. I might think I could do a better job at being a Senator than Harry Reid, but I don't want his job in the slightest. I know I could be a better administrative assistant than the one my doctor currently has, but I do not want her job in the slightest.
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Old September 30 2013, 11:58 PM   #22
Therin of Andor
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Re: Peter David comic book story

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
I never met anyone that wanted Arnold's job. Most of the people I knew at the time, myself included, believed that his job as "Mr. No-You-Can't-Do-That-In-Star Trek" should never have existed in the first place.
Every few days, he got to lead executive tours of the Star Trek sets for VIPs visiting Paramount Studios.

He got to travel the world every weekend to show slideshows of upcoming episodes of TNG, ST V, ST VI, DS9 and VOY.

He consulted with licencees (and still does, freelance) about their concepts for new Trek products.

He got to rummage through the archives to find reference photos that fitted media and licensee requests. And, IIRC, he organised them into sensible order, too.

He got to read every new script, and novel and comic manuscripts, and comment upon them - and yes, sometimes tell the editors that certain things weren't permitted. He also caught lots of continuity errors and had them corrected before we saw the result.

Sounds like a fun job to me! And, from ST IV till September 1991, he got paid to do it. (His tour guide job he'd done as a volunteer from the late 70s till 1986.)

To say his job shouldn't have existed is ludicrous. Imagine a movie studio that permitted no studio tours, or refused all requests for images.

RA often showed conventions things that he was able to fix in time, such as when the media tried to print the Enterprise upside down, or when a comic was supposed to show the main cast, but had omitted Chekov, etc, or when too many novels in a row suggested that Kirk needed to go on a diet.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:04 AM   #23
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Re: Peter David comic book story

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
There may have been. But that still doesn't negate what I said, Christopher. None of the people I knew wanted his job. They felt his job shouldn't exist.
And what you said doesn't negate what I said, because I was talking about people in general and not your specific circle of friends. So what is there to argue over?
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Old October 1 2013, 12:31 AM   #24
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Hey this is the Internet. There's always something pointless to argue over!
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Old October 1 2013, 12:55 AM   #25
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Christopher wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
There may have been. But that still doesn't negate what I said, Christopher. None of the people I knew wanted his job. They felt his job shouldn't exist.
And what you said doesn't negate what I said, because I was talking about people in general and not your specific circle of friends. So what is there to argue over?
Nothing. You're the one who took my one-off "funny, every fanboy I've ever known hated his guts" comment and decided to pick it apart down to its constituent sub-atomic particles.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:18 AM   #26
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Re: Peter David comic book story

^Is it necessary to go ad hominem? You said one sentence, and I said three short sentences in reply -- hardly "picking apart." You then chose to continue the discussion, and I simply responded in kind. At least, I thought it was a normal, civil discussion, but you seem to assume it's something more confrontational, and I have no interest in continuing it in that case.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:26 AM   #27
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Is it necessary to go ad hominem? You said one sentence, and I said three short sentences in reply -- hardly "picking apart." You then chose to continue the discussion, and I simply responded in kind. At least, I thought it was a normal, civil discussion, but you seem to assume it's something more confrontational, and I have no interest in continuing it in that case.
I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm currently amused, and previously have been slightly annoyed at this conversation. I made a one-off comment, and you responded, but in such a way that you seemed (to me) intent on disproving or invalidating what I'd said. That naturally put me a little on the defensive. We've gone in enough circles that I'm beyond that emotion now, and I simply find the whole thing laughable.

As ever, you take yourself too seriously, IMHO.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:32 AM   #28
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Re: Peter David comic book story

I have no interest in disproving or invalidating you personally. I don't know you, and I have no reason to focus on you. I'm just participating in a general, public conversation about a topic of general interest. Just because I offered an opinion different from your own does not mean it was directed at you, a person I have never met. I was just examining the idea under discussion.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:44 AM   #29
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Here we go again. Therin said that Arnold's job made him "the envy of fanboys." I replied that "funny, every fanboy I ever met hated his guts." You replied that "They aren't mutually exclusive" and more which seemed to imply my comment meant they were so. It didn't.

Hence, the debate began. Felt like every time I spoke from my experience, you acted as if I were speaking on behalf of the whole fandom and were thus in error. I wasn't. Therin also said that I misunderstood him. I didn't. I was simply stating that my experience during the era in question was different.

And here we are. Also, I tend to take responses that quote my post, or use a carrot to indicate my post, as pointed in my general direction.
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Old October 1 2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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Re: Peter David comic book story

Might I suggest we move on?
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