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Old September 22 2013, 03:14 AM   #31
The Wormhole
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Well, to be fair, Nemesis was the first and only reference to a space internet, thereby proving that not everything is kept in a starship database.
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Old September 22 2013, 04:57 AM   #32
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Y'know, the concept of a Starfleet internet could provide for some fascinating connectivity between starships which we've never really seen overtly referred to before, but which would indeed why minute information seemed accessible on almost any ship. Of course, the whole real-time subspace connectivity thing seems like it would be prone with problems to me.
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Old September 22 2013, 05:26 AM   #33
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Not every Starship would be in an area where "service" is available.
I always assumed that computer access is always available, everywhere, in the Trek future. There literally is no area where service is unavailable. Their equivalent of the Internet would be truly universal.

I mean, with all that technology, really, how could this NOT be the case?

That being said: "The Valtane Enigma" would be a great name for a murder mystery. Somebody should get right on that.
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Old September 22 2013, 05:43 AM   #34
Nerys Myk
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Not every Starship would be in an area where "service" is available.
I always assumed that computer access is always available, everywhere, in the Trek future. There literally is no area where service is unavailable. Their equivalent of the Internet would be truly universal.

I mean, with all that technology, really, how could this NOT be the case?

That being said: "The Valtane Enigma" would be a great name for a murder mystery. Somebody should get right on that.
Ships on deep space missions of exploration far from Federation space.
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Old September 22 2013, 05:56 AM   #35
Tiberius
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Stuff like that loses relevance over time though. By the 2360s and 70s, no one would care at all that Crewman Foster cleaned the bridge viewscreen window of the Kelvin at 14:35 on stardate 2233.03. Or that Chef had an unusual amount cumin shipped aboard NX-01 before it was decommissioned. Or that Robert April's crew had to stop bathing for six weeks in early 2247. Or that Harriman thought crew quarters had a door with faded paint in 2298. Or that Excelsior needed minor repairs in 2293.
Or that a guy on a research station took a shower in his clothes in 2265...

Damn it, an alarmingly large amount of people don't save their receipts, usually throwing them away almost immediately after they make a purchase if they even bother to take the receipt. Starfleet's not hold onto shipping manifests and maintenance reports a century after the fact.
Why not? Like I've said, it's not going to take up much space, and they are very organized.
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Old September 22 2013, 05:59 AM   #36
Tiberius
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Flashback got a lot wrong in regards to TUC. In Flashback, Sulu takes the Excelsior into Klingon space to rescue Kirk and Bones a few days after the Praxis explosion. But in TUC, few months go by after the explosion before Gorkon and his staff arrive on the Enterprise for dinner. Honestly, Tuvok has a faulty memory is the best excuse for everything. Valtane, timing of the Praxis incident.

But the part that really bothers me is when Janeway looks up everything in Starfleet records, which includes the Excelsior's sensor logs on the nebula and a log entry from Sulu saying the ship is undergoing minor repairs. Why is this in the starship's database? Wouldn't it be more convenient for it to be in space Wikipedia, or Memory Alpha which starship crews can access via space internet? Sure, that would mean the Voyager crew wouldn't have access to this, but really does Starfleet actually load up each starship's database with every sensor readings the ship made and every mundane captain's log entry? Besides, how the hell does someone read a log entry from Sulu saying his ship is undergoing minor repairs and decide "starships 80 years in the future are going to need to know that."
Well, given that it's basically a text file, and also given that the size of a starship's databanks are practically infinite, why not?
This is one of the most unrealistic aspects regarding future computer use. Just look at today, and the turn to cloud based services. Starship computers would not contain anything other their own data. Anything else would be accessed "online".
Well, since Janeway was able to access Sulu's logs from the Delta Quadrant, and I doubt Voyager had a connection to Starfleet at the time, I don't think this is true.
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Old September 22 2013, 12:41 PM   #37
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

^Well remember that Voyager was generally strange with databases. Just remember 11:59.
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Old September 22 2013, 01:50 PM   #38
Tiberius
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Hando wrote: View Post
^Well remember that Voyager was generally strange with databases. Just remember 11:59.
Oh, I'd really prefer not to...
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Old September 22 2013, 02:20 PM   #39
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Wasn't that the difference between the two 30th Anniversary episodes. The people behind DSN's "Trails and Tribble-ations" seemed to pay more attention to those small details. As if it a lot more care was paid by everyone involved in making it.
Like Sisko's bright yellow command shirt
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Old September 22 2013, 09:44 PM   #40
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Opus wrote: View Post
Valtane has a twin brother. In TUC when the Praxis wave hit Excelsior, one Valtane brother is seen next to Sulu's captain's chair and another Valtane brother is seen in a cutaway shot at the science station reacting to the shockwave. Check it out, it's really there!

I rewatched TUC last night, and can confirm this, because I looked for it when the time came. Sure, it probably was a production error, but it does provide a canonical hook to hang Opus's theory off of if one wanted to. I like it, anyway.
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Old September 22 2013, 10:05 PM   #41
USS Triumphant
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

I like the idea of a subspace internet - but I think that offline copies of as much unclassified information as possible, however insignificant, would be kept in as many places as possible, for four reasons:

1. The storage capacity is there, especially for text based info.
2. Earth lost a lot of information in its late 20th/early 21st century wars, including important cultural items, which would lead me to believe that humans would probably packrat information after they realized what was lost.
3. I believe that we will begin doing a better job of this at some point when we realize that we need the advantage that printed newspapers provided back - when a news item is centrally stored in one or a few digital places, it is easy to change. When it is in a million places, most of which you don't have control over, it is harder to edit the "facts" for your own purposes.
4. How many times has a mission turned on three random people that were put into cryogenic storage 300 years before, or figuring out that someone is immortal and has been masquerading as other people throughout history, or some other weird bit of what would otherwise have seemed like useless trivia? If not from the beginning, surely at some point the people responsible for loading the shipboard databases would have said, screw it, put it ALL in there.

All of that said, I agree that only an idiot would not do local loads and updates of STAR CHARTS for a freakin' starship, no matter what else was loaded in there or not!
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Old September 23 2013, 01:37 PM   #42
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

I figured you'd need a live update to check on current fleet positionings, as we saw in Nemesis.

Keeping everything stored in a ships' computer has always seemed goofy to me, but IIRC it was said in TOS that the computers hold the entire total of Federation knowledge. So I guess they do just chuck anything and everything into the database. If it fits, why not?
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Old September 23 2013, 01:54 PM   #43
FreddyE
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

I would not want to have to consolildate those SQL-tables or whatever equivalent they use ;-)
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Old September 23 2013, 04:26 PM   #44
Richard Baker
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

I think the storage of information involving missions (like the events of the PSI2000 virus) and ships functions (Excelsior maintenance) would be natural to keep stored locally on a Exploratory Starship. Considering how in just a few years the storage in the computer on my desk has gone from being measured in MBs to TBs, we cannot fathom how a few centuries will change things.
Personally I think Valtane was just a continuity error- they were trying to recreate the TUC bridge with crew and he was available, they had to kill a crewmember for the virus transfer and picked him. I suspect they hoped he would not noticed be in that group shot on viewscreen. I wish they had not chosen him, but with the story they needed a bridge crew to die, not some extra in the background.
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Old September 24 2013, 04:35 AM   #45
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: The Valtane Enigma

Computer technology in Trek's time is probably the ultimate "cloud". The technology available to Federation citizens is - indeed, must be - absolutely off the charts, so to speak, and certainly beyond anything we could conceive today. I don't see how they could NOT have all information available at all times, in all computers, everywhere. It's almost inevitable, really.

I suspect the only reason we saw people using computer tapes in TOS is because that's what 60's viewers expected to see...they certainly didn't know anything about cloud computing back then. A "real" 23rd century would surely not need to transfer any information from anywhere to anywhere.
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