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Old September 27 2013, 05:17 PM   #1
dub
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Nemesis

Do I have permission to just stop watching this one? I don't fathom I can glimpse anymore.
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Old September 27 2013, 05:19 PM   #2
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Re: Nemesis

really? Asside from the aliens being very familiar looking I thought it was kind of interesting....Chakotay bits asside
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Old September 27 2013, 05:41 PM   #3
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Re: Nemesis

Actually my favorite episode among the season 4-7 episodes. I liked the scenario where you couldn't be sure which were the good guys, the bad guys or whatever. I also liked the aliens strange language. It was also a great Chakotay episode.
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Old September 27 2013, 06:03 PM   #4
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Re: Nemesis

yeah, I liked that each side considered the other side to be the Nemesis
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Old September 27 2013, 06:15 PM   #5
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Re: Nemesis

Great Chakotay episode... something of an oxymoron.

The premise was interesting, but the over the top execution was just... well hard to watch. Too bad that conditioning couldn't have brought us back the Chakotay from Caretaker. The guy with a hard edge and attitude.
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Old September 27 2013, 06:20 PM   #6
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Re: Nemesis

Great episode and I thought that having the aliens speak the way they do was very different and very Star Trek. Very underrated eepisode.
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Old September 29 2013, 08:00 PM   #7
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Re: Nemesis

I've always quite liked this episode too. The way Chakotay is gradually brainwashed further and further as time goes on, to the point where he starts unconsciously using the terms of the aliens, is a nice and slightly creepy touch, and the scene where the scary-looking alien transforms into Tuvok is very well done. Was this story inspired at all by the Vietnam War?
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Old September 29 2013, 09:30 PM   #8
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Re: Nemesis

I found it a disappointment. And the way they talked put me off. I didn't like that what Chakotay went through was an ilusion. Why not make it real? Why not make it so that both sides commited atrocities (as usually happens in war)?

Yes, the Pseudo-Naussicans might have been the good guys, but good guys still commit atrocities in times of war. It would have made the ending more powerful. Chakotay would have been reacting based on real events he had witnessed. The audience would have been feeling the same, instead of knowing it was all fake.

Now, that would have been really subversive. They got one part right (sometimes the good guys are the ones who look less like us), they just needed the other one (sometimes the good guys do bad things). To think they were so close...
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Old September 29 2013, 10:13 PM   #9
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Re: Nemesis

Well, we did learn that the Nausicaans have relatives in the Delta Quadrant.

As for the Vori language, I found this at Memory Alpha:

Backwalk = back off / retreat ("it is sharper to backwalk")
Beast = the face of the enemy
Before = the past
Blossoms = flowers
Brightly = happily / cheerfully
Clash = a war / a fight ("you've landed right in the middle of a clash")
Cluster = to regroup ("it would be sharp to cluster with the others")
Colors = markings / uniform
Coverings = clothes ("they were his coverings")
Crave = want ("do you crave any more?")
Daughter's daughter = granddaughter
Drill = teach ("Drill Chakotay to fire Vori arms.")
Fast-walk = run / quick-march / rush ("they were fast-walked to the Extermination center")
Fathom = to know / to understand / to think ("you don't fathom the Nemesis")
Flame = to burn ("they flamed all our villages")
Fleet colors = Starfleet uniform
Foot-falls = paces, a measure of distance
The glare = the Sun ("glimpse the glare")
Glimpse = to see / an eye ("did you glimpse the Nemesis?"; "close your glimpses")
Gloried = highly held / glorified / great
Greeted = welcomed
Grey = old (person) ("he's too grey to be of use")
In the before = in the past
In the now = in the present
In the soon-after = in the future
Mother's father = grandfather
Nemesis = enemy
New-light = dawn
Nullify, nully = to kill / to be killed ("they were nullified")
Plantings = crops / harvest ("they took our plantings")
Rages = anger ("you turn your Trembles into Rages")
Savory = tasty ("I'm afraid it's not very savory")
Set loose = let go ( "Set my mother's father loose! Please! Let him loose!" )
Sharp = clever / wise / smart / better ("it would be sharp to wait until new-light")
Shroud = hide
Signal = call / contact
Sly = hide ("sly yourselves and fire back!")
Soon-after = future ("In the soon-after, we'll send them flying from this sphere")
Sphere = planet
Sturdy = strong ("He's very gray, and his heart's not sturdy")
Suffice = enough ("But does it suffice him to nullify you?")
Tellings = words / knowledge; orders ("do my tellings")
Tend = care for / protect
Toiling = working
The trembles = fear / cowardice ("you've got the trembles")
Top = head ("keep your top low and your glimpses wide")
Trunks = trees / woods ("we found him in the trunks")
Upturned = a Vori burial disgrace, a body facing upwards after death as to not go to the Way-after
Way-after = afterlife ("he's passed to the way-after")

Now you can fathom the telings of the Vori.
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Old September 30 2013, 01:03 AM   #10
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Re: Nemesis

I always thought that this was a decent Chakotay episode...as Chakotay episodes go anyway.
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Old September 30 2013, 05:28 PM   #11
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Re: Nemesis

There are worse "Chuckles episodes" for sure...
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Old September 30 2013, 05:46 PM   #12
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Re: Nemesis

Praetorian wrote: View Post
And the way they talked put me off.
It was as simple as that for me. The brainwashing thing was interesting, but I "craved" to "nullify" them into the "way-after" every time they opened their "sharp" little "pie holes."
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Old September 30 2013, 10:50 PM   #13
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Re: Nemesis

I only just noticed 20 years late, that Nemesis aired inbetween Day of Honour where B'Elanna told Tom that she loved him, and THREE DAYS LATER when Tom told her the he loved her back in Revulsion.

Odd no, that we have to project that this is on the back burner now, when no one during the making of Nemesis, actors, writers, director etc etc... Were at all aware that this odd little love story was present.
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Old October 1 2013, 12:53 AM   #14
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Re: Nemesis

Maybe Robert Beltran was feeling jealous and wanted an eppy.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:07 AM   #15
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Re: Nemesis

An epidural would have helped his acting.
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