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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 22 2013, 01:38 AM   #16
tomswift2002
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Full Circle gave them a reason to exist again, stand out from the other series, and has been much more popular...

As I recall, both Homecoming & The Farther Shore went through six printings within their first six to eight months. I don't recall hearing anything similar, or even seeing anything that close for Full Circle onward. So I would question which was more popular.
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Old September 22 2013, 04:20 AM   #17
Masiral
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
Full Circle gave them a reason to exist again, stand out from the other series, and has been much more popular...

As I recall, both Homecoming & The Farther Shore went through six printings within their first six to eight months. I don't recall hearing anything similar, or even seeing anything that close for Full Circle onward. So I would question which was more popular.
But how many copies of each were printed? Maybe Full Circle and onward just had a larger first printing.
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Old September 22 2013, 01:15 PM   #18
Christopher
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

^Six or more times larger? That seems unlikely.

Just because a book is unpopular with that tiny fraction of the audience that posts on Internet bulletin boards, that doesn't mean it's unpopular overall. BBS posters are not a statistically representative or unbiased sample of the audience. Heck, if you went by Internet comments alone, you'd think the Abrams Trek movies were total flops, but in fact they're the highest-rated Trek films on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb and two of the three highest-grossing Trek films in history corrected for inflation (STID is first, ST:TMP second, and ST 2009 third). So it's entirely plausible that the Spirit Walk books also sold better and were enjoyed more by the general audience than Internet reactions would suggest.

Also, there are more factors to consider. There was a gap of about four years between Spirit Walk and Full Circle. In that time, a lot of the VGR reading audience may have drifted away and not come back. Trek novel readership on the whole may have decreased as the books became harder to find on store shelves, or as a result of Trek no longer having a regular presence on television. Maybe the VGR books aren't the only ones selling in lower numbers now than they did a decade ago.
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Old September 22 2013, 03:00 PM   #19
langdonboom
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

My only nitpick with the Spirit Walk books were the way they were written - as in the actual prose, which seemed pretty on-the-nose juvenile compared to the best of the more recent Trek lit.

I loved the Chakotay/aliens/spirits scenario (always have), and I also loved the possibility of a major species from DS9 having some kind of effect on the Voyager story, so plot wise I was on board. But reading them just felt very 6th grade level, and thus were a bit underwhelming that way.

But for story alone, I thought they were worth reading.
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Old September 22 2013, 08:39 PM   #20
Masiral
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Six or more times larger? That seems unlikely.

Just because a book is unpopular with that tiny fraction of the audience that posts on Internet bulletin boards, that doesn't mean it's unpopular overall. BBS posters are not a statistically representative or unbiased sample of the audience. Heck, if you went by Internet comments alone, you'd think the Abrams Trek movies were total flops, but in fact they're the highest-rated Trek films on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb and two of the three highest-grossing Trek films in history corrected for inflation (STID is first, ST:TMP second, and ST 2009 third). So it's entirely plausible that the Spirit Walk books also sold better and were enjoyed more by the general audience than Internet reactions would suggest.

Also, there are more factors to consider. There was a gap of about four years between Spirit Walk and Full Circle. In that time, a lot of the VGR reading audience may have drifted away and not come back. Trek novel readership on the whole may have decreased as the books became harder to find on store shelves, or as a result of Trek no longer having a regular presence on television. Maybe the VGR books aren't the only ones selling in lower numbers now than they did a decade ago.
I'm just saying that without hard numbers, we can only speculate as to the size of the printings.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:30 PM   #21
Christopher
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

But we can make reasonable comparisons of the likelihood of different speculations, based on what we do know and on an application of logic and critical thinking. The speculation that one book's printing would arbitrarily be six times larger than that of an earlier book in the same series is pretty unlikely on the face of it.
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Old September 22 2013, 11:20 PM   #22
Stevil2001
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Is it worth pointing out that Marco Palmieri stopped posting whenever a book went in for reprints? And then he stopped working for S&S altogether? So how would we know how many printings any of the later books went through, except if we exhaustively sifted through copyright pages at Barnes and Noble? I don't think we can take the lack of those pronouncements as indicative of anything.
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Old September 22 2013, 11:39 PM   #23
tomswift2002
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
So how would we know how many printings any of the later books went through, except if we exhaustively sifted through copyright pages at Barnes and Noble?
Even though I don't go through the copyright pages "exhaustively" at Chapters/Coles, I have looked at the Voyager novels more often to see what printings are on the shelf, and of the books since "Full Circle" all that I've seen have been 1st and 2nd printings, and that's up to a year, sometimes two or three years after the books release. Of course it could be that the stores that I've gone into just don't do big sales on Trek books like other book stores, or most of their Trek orders are through their kiosks.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:12 AM   #24
JD
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

You can't judge entirely by what's in the physical stores though, a lot of people order through the internet, and now do ebooks.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:11 PM   #25
Scout101
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Homecoming and Farther Shore seem separate, in my mind, from the Spirit Walk books as well. Those first two were more of an epilogue for the series vice a new thing. Given the, uh, abrupt way the series ended, those first two books were a way to get a little more of the resolution fans wanted.

Spirit Walk was the first attempt to do something with the crew after that. Which is what my comments were based on. You seem to have left their number of printings out of your math, choosing something more popular

Either way, I don't get a slice of the bottom line, so not really important to me. Creatively, the new VOY direction (and author) work much better for me, whereas under Golden, the series no longer had a reason to exist. Wasn't going anywhere, no mission, just blah.
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Old September 23 2013, 12:42 PM   #26
tomswift2002
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Homecoming and Farther Shore seem separate, in my mind, from the Spirit Walk books as well. Those first two were more of an epilogue for the series vice a new thing. Given the, uh, abrupt way the series ended, those first two books were a way to get a little more of the resolution fans wanted.

Spirit Walk was the first attempt to do something with the crew after that. Which is what my comments were based on. You seem to have left their number of printings out of your math, choosing something more popular

Either way, I don't get a slice of the bottom line, so not really important to me. Creatively, the new VOY direction (and author) work much better for me, whereas under Golden, the series no longer had a reason to exist. Wasn't going anywhere, no mission, just blah.

"Spirit Walk" could be compared to "Death In Winter", which then led to the Borg storyline. Unfortunately, all we got to see was the start of whatever storyline Palmieri and Golden were planning. But, don't forget, back then Palmieri was trying to keep the series separate, while still keeping the back stories consistent.
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Old September 23 2013, 04:42 PM   #27
Stevil2001
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

I don't think Marco was the editor on the original VOY relaunch, but I could be mistaken.
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Old September 23 2013, 04:58 PM   #28
Scout101
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

^ I guess I can buy the 'who knows where it would have gone' idea, just not totally onboard with it. Seems they had a solid plan for the 2-book epilogue to the series (although still padded with silly Borg and Holo-revolution subplots), but after that?

-Played with the Klingon bit, although B'Elanna just hung out in the archives and read
-Janeway played at being Admiral, but constantly distracted by Voyager
-Paris eventually got bored with the Klingon research project and went with Janeway and got bored there instead (I think?)
-Seven and the Doctor were off on their own (right?)
-What's that leave? Chuckles and Harry doing milk runs in the AQ

I guess they could have had plans to do something, but they never got around to it. And would have much prefered that they figure out the plan BEFORE treading water for two books with Spirit Walk, stalling for time. They just didn't feel like they needed to be written, like a bad filler episode while you wait for the finale...
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Old September 23 2013, 05:17 PM   #29
Thrawn
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
I don't think Marco was the editor on the original VOY relaunch, but I could be mistaken.
He wasn't, it was Ordover.
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Old September 23 2013, 05:24 PM   #30
Christopher
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Re: Spirit Walk duology....

John Ordover edited Homecoming/The Farther Shore, but then he left Pocket. Spirit Walk was edited by Jennifer Heddle, who had worked with Golden on previous books for another publisher, but never edited any other Trek fiction.
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