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Old October 12 2013, 01:38 AM   #121
Lance
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I'll throw this one out there: is the Enterprise E in particular the strongest starship in that lineage? I've always wondered if the accepted conceit that each Enterprise is bigger, better and meaner than the last one is something of a misnomer. Especially in regards to the 1701-D and 1701-E. I like to imagine that the Galaxy Class and the Sovereign Class are reasonably equally matched, albeit constructed for different mission statements and therefore with their own pros and cons.

As to the OP's question...... no, IMO Vengeance is not as powerful as 24th century starships. It appears to be ultra powerful because we have only the technology of the alt-Enterprise to compare it against. But in practical terms I don't doubt it would be technologically inferior to the 24th century ships.

Having said that..... it's clear that Admiral Marcus has "pimped up" the Vengeance considerably, possibly using secret technology developed personally for him. So while it might not be as powerful as 24th century starships..... it might be less self-sustainable than the Enterprise D or E which were designed to be ships with a long term space mission..... it can achieve many things that neither of those starships can. Especially in a battle scenario.
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Old October 13 2013, 05:12 AM   #122
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Enterprise E is definatly much more powerful than the Ent-D. The Enterprise E was one of the designs actually designed for the Borg incursion (The first one that came much sooner than starfleet expected), then later paid off during the 2nd borg incursion. Thing has 12, (later 16 phaser strips in Nemesis-added to the nacelle pylons). And I remember them being several types higher class than the Ent-D's. Lets not forget that Quantum Torpedo launcher, than the double torpedo launcher beneath the deflector that can fire 12 torpedoes at once (Counted them in nemesis). And before we talk about how poorly the Enterprise faired against the Scimitar, listen to Worfs tactical analysis of the Scimitar. I think That ship held its own considering what it was up against. As for insurection...the insides were blowing up, but you never hear anyone say the shields were lower than 60%. And the Enterprise pwned that borg cube.

Last edited by Mycroft Maxwell; October 13 2013 at 05:17 AM. Reason: typo correction
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Old October 13 2013, 12:23 PM   #123
Lance
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

^ Well yes, it's a much better battleship than the D. But my point really was, in practical terms it might be worse in other ways, like in terms of it's science labs or stellar cartography or something, leading to a kind of equalibrium with the D on a par-to-par basis. Better armaments do not necessarily equal a 'better' vessel.

I like to imagine the Sovereign and Galaxy class as being peers, rather than one simply being 'better' than the other. They could be equally matched, but just in different areas aimed at different mission statements.
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Old October 13 2013, 01:13 PM   #124
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

^Could you give some examples of what the Galaxy Class can do that the Sovereign can't? Other than the Galaxy's ability to separate, where I think the Sovereign can out maneuvering the Saucer while dealing with the Stardrive, I don't see much else the Galaxy would be better at.
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Old October 13 2013, 01:32 PM   #125
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Screw that, can someone give me an example of what the Enterprise's D and E can do that Voyager can't? Or even Enterprise NX-01 (beyond holodeck episodes)? Even the Defiant sprouted shuttlebays when the story needed them. They're all the same really.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:00 PM   #126
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

^If you think the NX-01 can stand up against the E then have fun with that.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:02 PM   #127
F. King Daniel
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

If it has enough main characters on board, it will survive somehow.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:06 PM   #128
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Screw that, can someone give me an example of what the Enterprise's D and E can do that Voyager can't? Or even Enterprise NX-01 (beyond holodeck episodes)? Even the Defiant sprouted shuttlebays when the story needed them. They're all the same really.
Voyager: the economy sized Galaxy glass ship.

The Defiant had shuttlebays? I thought it only had escape pods.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:21 PM   #129
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Screw that, can someone give me an example of what the Enterprise's D and E can do that Voyager can't? Or even Enterprise NX-01 (beyond holodeck episodes)? Even the Defiant sprouted shuttlebays when the story needed them. They're all the same really.
Voyager: the economy sized Galaxy glass ship.

The Defiant had shuttlebays? I thought it only had escape pods.
It has one underside dropbay, the circular hatch the exact opposite point from the bridge under the ship.

We see the Chaffee (spelling?) deployed from it several times on the show.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:28 PM   #130
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

^ You're right!

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Old October 13 2013, 02:36 PM   #131
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/s...d.php?p=200969

A few good images here.
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Old October 13 2013, 08:33 PM   #132
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Big Boo wrote: View Post
^Could you give some examples of what the Galaxy Class can do that the Sovereign can't? Other than the Galaxy's ability to separate, where I think the Sovereign can out maneuvering the Saucer while dealing with the Stardrive, I don't see much else the Galaxy would be better at.
actually John Eaves designed the Sovereign class to seperate.

http://fsd.trekships.org/art/1701-e.html

If you scroll down to the bottom of that page, you can see how John Eaves worked the saucer separation out. He pretty much prepared his design for anything.
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Old October 13 2013, 09:26 PM   #133
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

It's not the size that counts. The E-E would certainly take care of the Vengeance.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:20 PM   #134
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Then theres the All Good Things Dreadnought Galaxy X whatever you want to call it....It has a freakin beam cannon that can shoot through shields, through armored hull, then out the other side of said armored hull, and the beam keeps going. Just fire that thing once at the overly exposed bridge of the Vengeance and its all over.
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Old October 14 2013, 06:48 AM   #135
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Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I wouldn't say that the Vengeance is more poweful than the Ent-E, but their power would actually be pretty comparable.

When you consider the fact that NuTrek torpedoes are rated at 320 Isotons (according to a display screen in ITD) when Voyager's class 6 photons were only 200 isotons, it's clear that weapons technology has taken a BIG leap in the new universe.

Also, Memory Alpha says that the JJprise can burstfire 12 torpedoes at a time, though I'm not 100% sure if that's canon. In any case, the Vengeance's torpedo turrets should be far superior to the JJprise's tubes. It would seem that Nuphasers are equally impressive, with their ability to arc mid flight.

On top of that, the Vengeance was able to survive an internal detonation of 72 torpedoes, so I HIGHLY doubt a single quantum torpedo will be enough to one shot it.

So, yeah. My money is still on the E (it is the hero ship after all) but it would not be a roflstomp.

Last edited by NeedleOfInquiry; October 14 2013 at 07:02 AM.
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