RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,201
Posts: 5,404,383
Members: 24,758
Currently online: 543
Newest member: ashlynnbrooke80

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 14 2013, 11:46 PM   #136
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

It kinda reminded me of the Excelsiors tracing phasers from the DC comics
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 08:35 PM   #137
Mycroft Maxwell
Lieutenant Commander
 
Mycroft Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Tennessee USA
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

This is what pisses me off so much about the guys behind the scenes of JJtrek. They freaking UBERED EVERYTHING. Its like JJ, Kurtzman, and Orci did know what the hell they were doing, very unrealistically. Its like, "hey lets give this wagon a dodge viper engine". You can not reverse engineer a mining vessel and expect to have a ship able to take on a warship from the time of said mining ship's origin. Everything spec wise done to the JJverse ships is just freakin dumb. Oh lets make it BIGGER than a GALAXY class. Oh lets make the phaser and photon torpedoes MORE POWERFUL and MORE ADVANCED than 24th century advanced starships. Now heres the truth-

The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence. The Enterprise E can F up The Enterprise D. The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E. The Enterprise J can F up the All Good Things Drednought. THATS CHRONOLOGICAL REALISM RIGHT THERE. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not familiar with Engineering, history, and technological advancements and continuity.

Also, Put a Nuclear Missile on a freakin 1913 battleship, Its still not gonna beat a 2013 Destroyer.
Mycroft Maxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 09:58 PM   #138
Shawnster
Fleet Captain
 
Shawnster's Avatar
 
Location: Clinton, OH
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post

Also, Put a Nuclear Missile on a freakin 1913 battleship, Its still not gonna beat a 2013 Destroyer.
No, but it could beat a 2013 mining ship, even without the nuke.
Shawnster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 10:07 PM   #139
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
This is what pisses me off so much about the guys behind the scenes of JJtrek. They freaking UBERED EVERYTHING. Its like JJ, Kurtzman, and Orci did know what the hell they were doing, very unrealistically. Its like, "hey lets give this wagon a dodge viper engine". You can not reverse engineer a mining vessel and expect to have a ship able to take on a warship from the time of said mining ship's origin. Everything spec wise done to the JJverse ships is just freakin dumb. Oh lets make it BIGGER than a GALAXY class. Oh lets make the phaser and photon torpedoes MORE POWERFUL and MORE ADVANCED than 24th century advanced starships. Now heres the truth-

The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence. The Enterprise E can F up The Enterprise D. The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E. The Enterprise J can F up the All Good Things Drednought. THATS CHRONOLOGICAL REALISM RIGHT THERE. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not familiar with Engineering, history, and technological advancements and continuity.

Also, Put a Nuclear Missile on a freakin 1913 battleship, Its still not gonna beat a 2013 Destroyer.
But if you dropped a modern cell phone into the 1960's you may end up with very different cell phones (and everything else) than you're expecting come 1990. They may even top the ones 2013-Prime has to offer.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 12:44 AM   #140
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post

Also, Put a Nuclear Missile on a freakin 1913 battleship, Its still not gonna beat a 2013 Destroyer.
No, but it could beat a 2013 mining ship, even without the nuke.
Yeah, but if a 1913 battleship used tech from a 2013 mining ship, I don't think it could take out a 2013 battleship.
bbjeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 03:21 AM   #141
Herkimer Jitty
Rear Admiral
 
Herkimer Jitty's Avatar
 
Location: Dayglow, New California Republic
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Herkimer Jitty
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

They could, because in 2013 battleships are all museums.
__________________
"What?" - { Emilia }
Herkimer Jitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 07:08 AM   #142
Mycroft Maxwell
Lieutenant Commander
 
Mycroft Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Tennessee USA
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

I think he meant a 2013 destroyer lol
Mycroft Maxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 04:56 PM   #143
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

^Yeah.
bbjeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 06:22 PM   #144
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence.
Again, we don't know how technology has evolved relative to the evolution of Prime Timeline technology. Abramsverse tech might be radically different from Primeverse tech as a result of exposure to the Narada and the Jellyfish. So this is a question that cannot rationally be answered.

The Enterprise E can F up The Enterprise D.
The Sovereign class may be able to defeat the Galaxy class circa 2364, but I doubt it's so clear-cut when you talk about Galaxy class ships that have undergone Dominion War-era refits. It's likely an even match.

The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E.
Again, we don't know how the evolution of weapons tech worked out in the alternate timeline of AGT, so it's not a question we can answer. It's just as plausible to say that in the timeline of AGT, the UFP never developed quantum torpedos and so the Sovereign class would defeat the Galaxy X class.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2013, 11:50 PM   #145
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Sci wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence.
Again, we don't know how technology has evolved relative to the evolution of Prime Timeline technology. Abramsverse tech might be radically different from Primeverse tech as a result of exposure to the Narada and the Jellyfish. So this is a question that cannot rationally be answered.
Well I agree with most of what Mycroft Maxwell is saying. True, the few hours they've shown of some of the mentioned ships aren't enough to make detailed answers but it's safe to make the educated guess of MM's prediction. The Narada and the Jellyfish were seen but it's not like they scanned the systems, both ships were destroyed. They did to the Vengeance what they did to the JJprise after the Narada blew up the Kelvin, they just made it bigger. Next Gen's tech, after years of wars and discoveries, Wolf 359 Borg upgrades, Dominion war refits, plus Enterprise E's refit at the end of Nemesis after Voyagers return (god mode activated) is going to beat a hundred year old tech that scanned a future mining vessel.
Sci wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The Enterprise E can F up The Enterprise D.
The Sovereign class may be able to defeat the Galaxy class circa 2364, but I doubt it's so clear-cut when you talk about Galaxy class ships that have undergone Dominion War-era refits. It's likely an even match.
I agree with you there though in the end I think the Sovereign will get the upper hand.
Sci wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E.
Again, we don't know how the evolution of weapons tech worked out in the alternate timeline of AGT, so it's not a question we can answer.
Well we did see that Galaxy dreadnought cut through the Klingon dreadnought that was used during the DS9 / Klingon battle, and the Klingon dreadnought took everything DS9 could throw at it.
bbjeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17 2013, 06:37 AM   #146
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Big Boo wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence.
Again, we don't know how technology has evolved relative to the evolution of Prime Timeline technology. Abramsverse tech might be radically different from Primeverse tech as a result of exposure to the Narada and the Jellyfish. So this is a question that cannot rationally be answered.
Well I agree with most of what Mycroft Maxwell is saying. True, the few hours they've shown of some of the mentioned ships aren't enough to make detailed answers but it's safe to make the educated guess of MM's prediction. The Narada and the Jellyfish were seen but it's not like they scanned the systems, both ships were destroyed.
Ah, but the Narada was also disabled after the Kelvin rammed her, and she was surrounded by Starfleet shuttlecraft. It's entirely possible that those shuttles were able to take detailed scans of the Narada's systems and that this information thereby accelerated the Federation's technological development. (Such an acceleration could be especially advanced if the Narada was outfitted, as the comic Countdown establishes, with retrofitted Borg technology.)

On the other hand, it is just as plausible that no such scans took place and that the Federation of the 2250s Abramsverse is no more technologically advanced than the Federation of the 2250s Primeverse.

We just don't know.

Sci wrote: View Post
Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E.
Again, we don't know how the evolution of weapons tech worked out in the alternate timeline of AGT, so it's not a question we can answer.
Well we did see that Galaxy dreadnought cut through the Klingon dreadnought that was used during the DS9 / Klingon battle, and the Klingon dreadnought took everything DS9 could throw at it.
The version of the Negh'Var-class ships we saw in the uptime segments of "All Good Things..." were themselves not the same as the versions we saw in "The Way of the Warrior" (set in 2372) -- just as the uptime Galaxy X class is not the same as the downtime Galaxy class we're familiar with. So, again, we can't compare the standard timeline's 2370s Negh'Var to the alternate future's version; we don't know along what lines that alternate future's Klingon Empire and Federation technologies evolved. We just have no standard of comparison.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17 2013, 04:39 PM   #147
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Sci wrote: View Post
Big Boo wrote: View Post
Well we did see that Galaxy dreadnought cut through the Klingon dreadnought that was used during the DS9 / Klingon battle, and the Klingon dreadnought took everything DS9 could throw at it.
The version of the Negh'Var-class ships we saw in the uptime segments of "All Good Things..." were themselves not the same as the versions we saw in "The Way of the Warrior" (set in 2372) -- just as the uptime Galaxy X class is not the same as the downtime Galaxy class we're familiar with. So, again, we can't compare the standard timeline's 2370s Negh'Var to the alternate future's version; we don't know along what lines that alternate future's Klingon Empire and Federation technologies evolved. We just have no standard of comparison.
The Negh'Vars aren't the same but wouldn't it be safe to say the AGT version was stronger? In AGT, with the Federation and Klingons not on good terms and with the federation sporting ships like that Galaxy X, not to mention AGT was further in the future than the DS9/Klingon battle (set in 2395), it's safe to say the Klingons had plenty of time for advancement.

Last edited by bbjeg; October 17 2013 at 11:24 PM.
bbjeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2013, 07:07 PM   #148
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Remember "In a mirror, darkly?"

the USS Defiant is taken through to the mirror universe about 100 years in the past and demolishes everything.

And in the mirror universe, starfleet is a military organisation, the NX class is a warship and the defiant crushes it in about 10 seconds

same would apply here, quantum torpedoes would probably one shot the vengance.
Yes, Yes, YES!!! as comparisons go, this is as good a comparson as we are going to get.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2013, 07:27 PM   #149
Mycroft Maxwell
Lieutenant Commander
 
Mycroft Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Tennessee USA
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Remember "In a mirror, darkly?"

the USS Defiant is taken through to the mirror universe about 100 years in the past and demolishes everything.

And in the mirror universe, starfleet is a military organisation, the NX class is a warship and the defiant crushes it in about 10 seconds

same would apply here, quantum torpedoes would probably one shot the vengance.
Finally, A good example of what I was talking about. Remember the USS Defiant (constitution class) was an explorer just like the Uss Enterprise Ncc-1701. And It pwned every warship of the Mirror Universe the century before. Now take into account that the Enterprise-E herself was actually built f or battle, I am sure the Enterprise E would not only beat the Vengence, but do it without taking any damage what so ever.
Mycroft Maxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2013, 10:05 PM   #150
NeedleOfInquiry
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
Remember "In a mirror, darkly?"

the USS Defiant is taken through to the mirror universe about 100 years in the past and demolishes everything.

And in the mirror universe, starfleet is a military organisation, the NX class is a warship and the defiant crushes it in about 10 seconds

same would apply here, quantum torpedoes would probably one shot the vengance.
Finally, A good example of what I was talking about. Remember the USS Defiant (constitution class) was an explorer just like the Uss Enterprise Ncc-1701. And It pwned every warship of the Mirror Universe the century before. Now take into account that the Enterprise-E herself was actually built f or battle, I am sure the Enterprise E would not only beat the Vengence, but do it without taking any damage what so ever.
I seriously doubt that. Again, The Vengeance has 320 isoton torpedoes. And if the phasers are even half as impressive, it's going to scrape some paint off the big E's hull.
NeedleOfInquiry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.