RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,944
Posts: 5,479,333
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 569
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 18 2013, 04:47 AM   #16
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^And what's wrong with that? I demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 04:55 AM   #17
drt
Commander
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Voyager-6 was equipped with an early impulse engine not too unlike those used on the DY-100 ships of that time. It was able to quickly overtake all five of the five previous Voyager probes prior to its disappearance.
I like that idea.

Also, I always figured that in the ST universe there is a black hole lurking somewhere near the Solar System, as indicated by the "black star" encountered in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.
drt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 05:07 AM   #18
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: 221B BakerStreet
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
At the time, the timeframe of ST hadn't been locked down yet. Looking at it retroactively, it clearly doesn't fit what's now been established about the chronology, but it's easy enough to assume that Decker's memory of historical dates was imperfect and he misspoke.
Right. The first time Star Trek is actually stated to take place in the twenty third century is in TWOK.

--Sran
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 03:04 PM   #19
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

drt wrote: View Post
Also, I always figured that in the ST universe there is a black hole lurking somewhere near the Solar System, as indicated by the "black star" encountered in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.
In my Department of Temporal Investigations novels, I establish that the "black star" is indeed the black hole that V'Ger fell through.

And if anyone's wondering, yes, it is possible that a dormant black hole could go undetected if it were close to the Solar System. With nothing falling in, no accretion disk, it'd just be, well, black. The only ways to detect it would be, one, if we saw it lensing the light of a star or galaxy it passed in front of -- which would require a lot of luck -- or two, by its gravitational effect on other bodies such as comets, but we know little enough about the orbits of Kuiper Belt comets that it would be hard to tell whether something's perturbing them.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 03:36 PM   #20
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Although many TOS quotes suggest 200 years from now, here is one from "The Trouble with Tribbles" that could suggest otherwise:

SPOCK: Undeveloped. Sherman's Planet is claimed by both sides, our Federation and the Klingon Empire. We do have the better claim.
CHEKOV: The area was first mapped by the famous Russian astronomer Ivan Borkoff almost two hundred [years ago?!?]
KIRK: John Burke.
CHEKOV: Burke, sir? I don't think so. I'm sure it was
SPOCK: John Burke was the Chief Astronomer at the Royal Academy in old Britain at the time.

Hopefully Chekov wasn't referring to "parsecs"

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 03:47 PM   #21
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
They should have taken a hint from TNG, which didn't take place exactly 400 years in the future of its broadcast.
I think initially they did, hence D. C. Fontana's line from "Farpoint" that Data graduated "Class of '78."
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
Which makes the indirect references to the 22nd century and then to a much later time than the 23rd century the more puzzling.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 10:56 PM   #22
WarpFactorZ
Captain
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Maybe they simply edited out the following line:

Decker: "Voyager 6. This was launched over 300 years ago!"

Ilia: "Incorrect, Decker Unit. 278.28234234 ---"
WarpFactorZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 11:01 PM   #23
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He meant 300 Deltan years
Which, per my DTI calendar notes, would be 208.2 Earth years, or 2065. Plenty of time!
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26 2013, 12:21 AM   #24
Mr. Comic Book
Ensign
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
At the time, the timeframe of ST hadn't been locked down yet. Looking at it retroactively, it clearly doesn't fit what's now been established about the chronology, but it's easy enough to assume that Decker's memory of historical dates was imperfect and he misspoke.
Right. The first time Star Trek is actually stated to take place in the twenty third century is in TWOK.

--Sran
Though IIRC, in The Making of Star Trek, Roddenberry often used the 23rd Century as a reference point when talking about the future. So it's interesting that it was chosen to be the setting of Star Trek in TWOK.
Publicity materials for The Motion Picture called it "a 23rd-century odyssey." So the period had already been established as Trek's era. Exactly when in the 23rd century...well, they still hadn't pinpointed it.
Mr. Comic Book is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26 2013, 12:57 AM   #25
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^The period had been established in secondary materials, but it wasn't explicitly stated in a canonical production itself until TWOK.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 05:27 PM   #26
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably residing in the meat packing district
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Decker: "Voyager 6. This was launched over 300 years ago!"

Ilia: "Incorrect, Decker Unit. 278.28234234 ---"
At which point the "Ilia unit" is cut off as Decker shows it his pimp hand.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2013, 08:11 PM   #27
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

^^^And broke his hand. Remember when Bones tries to grab and move it/her?
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 02:00 PM   #28
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Rounding off, up or down large numbers is not a problem when they are given as a general description. Hence, "2 centuries" or even "20 years ago" could easily be a few above or below those figures.

However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?

With the TMP situation, Decker clearly says "over three hundred years ago" so it really can't be any less than that. Unless, as someone upthread has postulated, he was just really lousy with history? This is the "old world calendar" we are talking about, not a Stardate to be seen!

P.S.
Maybe Voyager 6 fell into a black hole after being swept along by one of those magnetic storms that captured the S.S. Valiant?
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 02:17 PM   #29
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Mytran wrote: View Post
However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?
The fix Greg Cox used in To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh was that Ceti Alpha V's year was 1.2 times as long as an Earth year, so it was 15 local years and 18 standard years.


With the TMP situation, Decker clearly says "over three hundred years ago" so it really can't be any less than that. Unless, as someone upthread has postulated, he was just really lousy with history?
Or just ordinarily lousy with history. Plenty of people don't remember how long ago specific things happened. And one space probe getting lost centuries ago isn't a major historical event like First Contact or the founding of United Earth, just a bit of science-history trivia. You probably remember when Sputnik 1 launched or when Neil Armstrong took one small step, but do you remember when Venera 7 became the first probe to land on Venus?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2013, 03:52 PM   #30
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: V'Ger 6 + "more than three hundred years"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
However, more precise numbers given by characters with a definite point to prove are less easy to ignore - why would Khan say "15 years" if he could say "16" or "18" or "20"?
The fix Greg Cox used in To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh was that Ceti Alpha V's year was 1.2 times as long as an Earth year, so it was 15 local years and 18 standard years.

The problem with Greg's fix is that, if I remember correctly, Kirk independently uses the 15 year figure in TWOK.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.