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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 17 2013, 12:55 AM   #121
WarpFactorZ
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
what instrument was keeping them afloat at the low altitude of 200,000 km up to that point?
Plot, I guess.

As for the TWOK issue and stranding him on Regula One, I went through this entire thread and I don't think I saw anyone actually quote Khan's speech to Kirk (paraphrasing from memory):

Khan wrote:
"Perhaps I no longer need to try. [beams up Genesis]. I've done far worse than kill you, Kirk. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me -- as you left her -- marooned for all eternity at the center of a dead planet, buried alive."
So, yeah, he changed his mind because he realized he could grab Genesis and no one would know he had it. Then he could learn how it worked, build an arsenal of Genesis torpedoes (maybe 72 of them...), and in the words of NuKhan: "... continue the work my people started centuries ago."
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Old September 17 2013, 01:08 AM   #122
CorporalClegg
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
So, yeah, he changed his mind because he realized he could grab Genesis and no one would know he had it.
Assumption.

Then he could learn how it worked,
Assumption.

build an arsenal of Genesis torpedoes (maybe 72 of them...), and in the words of NuKhan:
Assumption.

"... continue the work my people started centuries ago."
Assumption.

For a guy who's supposed to be so smart, he's taking a lot on blind faith.

This is, of course, after his previous assumptions that: A) The Enterprise was mortally wounded, and B) that Kirk was "marooned at the center of the dead planet." The fact was, even had Kirk been marooned there, he'd be stuck in paradise left to spend the rest of his days with his family and one his his best friends. What a dreadful fate...

Really not the poetic justice Khan thought it was because he was (again) assuming shit.
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Old September 17 2013, 02:04 AM   #123
Set Harth
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
in the words of NuKhan: "... continue the work my people started centuries ago."
When does he say that?
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Old September 17 2013, 02:31 AM   #124
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
in the words of NuKhan: "... continue the work my people started centuries ago."
When does he say that?
It was a paraphrase. I haven't had 31 years to commit STiD to memory. The exact quote is:

Khan: Continue the work we were doing before we were banished.

Spock: Which as I understand it involves the mass-genocide of any being you find to be less than superior.
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Old September 17 2013, 03:08 AM   #125
Khan444
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Nemesis had more plot holes than STID easily, in fact the entire plot was a plot hole. The thing about Khan in TWOK was that he was obsessed with killing Kirk, the suddenly wasn't and just left him trapped inside a planet. Then, during the climax, he was suddenly obsessed with killing Kirk again, so much so that he walked into the most obvious "its a trap" situation imaginable. It isn't really a plot hole per se, just odd.
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Old September 17 2013, 12:15 PM   #126
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

STID's plot holes aren't 'unrivaled'. But with all those plot holes websites nowadays, I guess people simply notice them more. Of course, older movies are already known to us so we tend to forgive their own problems.

Maybe we're all being a bit too critical.
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Old September 17 2013, 04:41 PM   #127
M'Sharak
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Belz... wrote: View Post
STID's plot holes aren't 'unrivaled'. But with all those plot holes websites nowadays, I guess people simply notice them more.
There are websites devoted to nothing but plot holes?

Edit:

Huh, I guess there are. Crazy.

Some of their "plot holes" aren't really plot holes, though.
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Old September 17 2013, 09:56 PM   #128
Sindatur
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

The Board has 23,000+ Members, and only 5 or 10 at most, make a daily habit out of taking every single opportunity (Even in unrelated threads) to express their extreme dislike for The Bad Robot Trek Films and/or The Bad Robot Team?

Now, I'm not saying the rest of the members of the board love the films. It's certainly true that many do express flaws that exist in the films, and they often end up being lumped in as "Abrams Apoligists"

But out of 23,000+ members, only 5 or 10 of them has such intense hatred for the films and Bad Robot personnel that they regularly post that extreme dislike.

Does it really make sense to slam, bait and namecall the posters on a regular basis who don't agree with those 5 or 10
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Old September 18 2013, 10:20 AM   #129
Belz...
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
There are websites devoted to nothing but plot holes?
Plot holes and "tropes". It's interesting but maybe it has a negative impact on how one sees new movies.
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Old September 18 2013, 11:39 AM   #130
Mountie1988
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
The Board has 23,000+ Members, and only 5 or 10 at most, make a daily habit out of taking every single opportunity (Even in unrelated threads) to express their extreme dislike for The Bad Robot Trek Films and/or The Bad Robot Team?

Now, I'm not saying the rest of the members of the board love the films. It's certainly true that many do express flaws that exist in the films, and they often end up being lumped in as "Abrams Apoligists"

But out of 23,000+ members, only 5 or 10 of them has such intense hatred for the films and Bad Robot personnel that they regularly post that extreme dislike.

Does it really make sense to slam, bait and namecall the posters on a regular basis who don't agree with those 5 or 10
I get your point, but do yourself a favour and do not make assumptions regarding the number of Abrams-haters, or else they will slam, bait and namecall you on a regular basis
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Old September 18 2013, 04:37 PM   #131
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Kirk violates regulations and refuses to raise shields and thus fails to protect his crew of training cadets.
He had become rusty and, ironically, overly trusting. OTOH Khan's sarcastic comment that they were all "one happy fleet" suggested a norm of high trust was typical.

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
Star Trek: First Contact
The TNG crew monitors the Romulan Neutral Zone, then agrees to disobey orders and get involved with the Borg after the battle at 001 already has started, but manages to arrive in time while it still lasts. That's what I call Transwarp Drive Baby.
I believe the battle the crew heard about was not at 001 but far from Earth. It's questionable but not unbelievable that some ships or different ships in multiple waves would hold out for a while.

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
First Contact Again
The Borg first fly to Earth, then go back in time. Why not the other way round without the Federation noticing?

And First Contact One More Time
Enslave mankind when it was most vulnerable. 21st century? Really? I don't think Mitochondrial Eve would have been up to the fight (Then again, she was half Cylon...)
Not flaws at all. The Borg felt attacking in the present would work and be most valuable and when they were shown to be wrong they felt just pre-FC would give them the best outcome comparing resources gained to the level of resistance.


Not really a plot hole but a contrivance: I hated how in both TSfS and ID the plot depends so much on the Enterprise being crippled after being fired upon a small number of times (there was some attempted explanation in both but it wasn't enough).
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Old September 18 2013, 04:45 PM   #132
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

suarezguy wrote: View Post

Not really a plot hole but a contrivance: I hated how in both TSfS and ID the plot depends so much on the Enterprise being crippled after being fired upon a small number of times (there was some attempted explanation in both but it wasn't enough).
The Enterprise in Into Darkness took quite a beating. In The Search for Spock, you had a ship normally crewed by four-hundred plus being operated by three people.

Neither seemed contrived to me. They both seemed in line with how the Trek universe operates.
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Old September 18 2013, 07:32 PM   #133
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

The Enterprise in TSFS was already going to be scuttled from the beating she took, or beatings plural since her damage increased 2.5 fold to the hull between movies, for no reason, so when a photon torpedo hit them with practically no shields it destroyed the automation center.

Which meant that even if her systems were still operable, there was literally no computer connection to them or way to make them work.
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Old September 18 2013, 09:22 PM   #134
OpenMaw
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
So, yeah, he changed his mind because he realized he could grab Genesis and no one would know he had it.
Assumption.
Not an assumption at all. That's what happens, and that's why it happens. Khan was jamming long range communications. Enterprise, and the science team, had no way to communicate with Starfleet. Nobody would know who had taken Genesis once Khan had destroyed Enterprise. No one.
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Old September 18 2013, 10:00 PM   #135
CorporalClegg
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
Not an assumption at all. That's what happens, and that's why it happens. Khan was jamming long range communications. Enterprise, and the science team, had no way to communicate with Starfleet. Nobody would know who had taken Genesis once Khan had destroyed Enterprise. No one.
It's an assumption.
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