RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,836
Posts: 5,327,241
Members: 24,551
Currently online: 551
Newest member: Mycroft

TrekToday headlines

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 12 2013, 03:41 PM   #16
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 03:49 PM   #17
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Thelin's antennae must have picked up on signals the rest of Our Heroes would have missed.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 03:58 PM   #18
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

In general, this is one of the problems with alternate timelines from a dramatic standpoint. So many stories are built around the idea of the heroes' unique skills or attributes enabling them to surmount impossible odds, the idea that if the protagonists hadn't been in the right place at the right time, all would've been lost. It kind of undermines that if you reveal that in an alternate reality where your hero never existed, the world still turned out pretty much the exact same way.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 04:31 PM   #19
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

True enough, though the author played that up well enough when depicting later events IMO.

If I was to guess with regards to the author's intentions, it's possible they felt their hands were tied with regards to V'ger and consequently opted to omit that particular incident (along with who knows how many scenarios in TOS where Spock's presence was pivotal) or that they planned to cover it but had to cut it due to story length restrictions.

Heck, maybe without Spock, Our Heroes end up stranded in the mirror universe.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 10:57 PM   #20
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
I wondered about this, too. The story starts in 2274, which would put it about a year after the incident. Will Decker never makes an appearance in this timeline (as depicted), so it's possible he merged with V'Ger as he did in the primary universe. But it's not clear how the Enterprise crew would have gained their insight into V'Ger without Spock's ability to mind-meld.

I suppose it's possible Enterprise was never assigned to intercept V'Ger in the Thelin continuity. Another vessel and crew could have found a way of diverting the entity before it destroyed Earth. But it still would have been nice to learn how those events played without Spock being there.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 11:07 PM   #21
Mysterion
Rear Admiral
 
Mysterion's Avatar
 
Location: SB-31, Daran V
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
This. The butterflies would start fluttering even before the events of The Cage, and by the time you got to the time period of TOS, there's no telling what the disposition of USS Enterprise or the TOS characters would be. There might not even have been a USS Enterprise when V'Ger shuffled in from stage left.
__________________
USS Galileo Galilei, NCC-8888
Prima Inter Pares
Mysterion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:28 AM   #22
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Sci wrote: View Post
Heck, maybe the Guardian sent them downtime to an equivalent point in Andor's history, and it was Kirk who had to disguise himself!
I would bet this is how it happened on Kumari in the Tears of Eridanus-verse. Thelin and Sulu in Earth's past, with Thelin passing Sulu off as an Aenar whose ears were caught in a mechanical ice-picker.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
I was tempted to thrown a line into The Tears of Eridanus that Earth had been ravaged by both V'Ger and the whale probe because 1) no Spock 2) Earth wasn't important enough to rush the only ship in the quadrant to anyway.
__________________
"All of time and space. Everywhere and anywhere, every star that ever was. Where do you want to start?"
Exploring the Universe
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:36 AM   #23
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

It's interesting that you mention that, because while it never quite got to this point for me, I think a lot of the MyrU stories told were kind of downers. I mean they make things look better for the Primeverse, but it's still kind of sad to see things going to hell in some of the others.

Heck, the same book that features "Chimes at Midnight" showcases a Dominion War that spirals even farther out of control than the one we witnessed on DS9.

I don't think this was by any means intentional, but to some degree it implies that the Primeverse really is the best of all possible outcomes, at least for the universe at large. Heck, the Abramsverse has already implied this as well, what with the destruction of Vulcan, London and San Francisco.

Given the events of Destiny, it might be interesting to see a timeline where the NX-02 never met the Caeliar.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:37 AM   #24
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Heck, maybe the Guardian sent them downtime to an equivalent point in Andor's history, and it was Kirk who had to disguise himself!
I would bet this is how it happened on Kumari in the Tears of Eridanus-verse. Thelin and Sulu in Earth's past, with Thelin passing Sulu off as an Aenar whose ears were caught in a mechanical ice-picker.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
I was tempted to thrown a line into The Tears of Eridanus that Earth had been ravaged by both V'Ger and the whale probe because 1) no Spock 2) Earth wasn't important enough to rush the only ship in the quadrant to anyway.
The idea of an Andorian-dominated polity opens up the possibility that the V'Ger crisis was resolved by an Aenar. Their powerful telepathy might have helped in Spock's absence.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 02:15 PM   #25
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Or maybe in this timeline, Sonak didn't die, and it was he who fulfilled Spock's role.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:07 PM   #26
TJ Sinclair
Captain
 
TJ Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: There and back again...
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Or maybe in this timeline, Sonak didn't die, and it was he who fulfilled Spock's role.
That works for me.
__________________
"Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001
TJ Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 06:42 AM   #27
Avro Arrow
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

DonIago wrote: View Post
Thelin's antennae must have picked up on signals the rest of Our Heroes would have missed.
Either that, or... ICE POWERS!!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Or maybe in this timeline, Sonak didn't die, and it was he who fulfilled Spock's role.
That's honestly what I thought of at first, too: if Thelin didn't leave Starfleet after TOS like Spock did, then he should have already been assigned to Enterprise at the start of TMP, and then maybe he was able to resolve the transporter issue before Sonak beamed aboard. But then... if Thelin is already aboard, why would Sonak even get assigned to the crew, since they already have a science officer? Unless... Since Thelin was still in Starfleet, maybe he was originally promoted to captain the Enterprise instead of Decker, so he would still be around, but they'd still need a science officer. But then who merged with V'ger? Argh...

Sci wrote: View Post
The idea of an Andorian-dominated polity opens up the possibility that the V'Ger crisis was resolved by an Aenar. Their powerful telepathy might have helped in Spock's absence.
Doesn't someone around here (I'm thinking Therin of Andor) propose that Thelin himself is part-Aenar, based on his colouring in TAS? If this was the case, he could have some rudimentary telepathy, and then maybe he was the one who "melded" with V'ger in "Chimes at Midnight"!

Or, y'know, maybe they just figured the V'ger thing out without the mindmeld after all...
Avro Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 08:09 AM   #28
DarkHorizon
Captain
 
DarkHorizon's Avatar
 
Location: Newport, Wales
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Doesn't someone around here (I'm thinking Therin of Andor) propose that Thelin himself is part-Aenar, based on his colouring in TAS? If this was the case, he could have some rudimentary telepathy, and then maybe he was the one who "melded" with V'ger in "Chimes at Midnight"!

Or, y'know, maybe they just figured the V'ger thing out without the mindmeld after all...
"The Chimes of Midnight" specifically says that Thelin is part-Aenar (His zhavey is Aenar, IIRC).
__________________
Musings of a fandom geek - Sometimes, you’ve just got to say “The laws of time and space? Who gives a smeg?”
DarkHorizon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 01:31 PM   #29
Hando
Lieutenant Commander
 
Hando's Avatar
 
Send a message via ICQ to Hando Send a message via AIM to Hando Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Hando Send a message via Yahoo to Hando
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

Sci wrote: View Post
Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Heck, maybe the Guardian sent them downtime to an equivalent point in Andor's history, and it was Kirk who had to disguise himself!
I would bet this is how it happened on Kumari in the Tears of Eridanus-verse. Thelin and Sulu in Earth's past, with Thelin passing Sulu off as an Aenar whose ears were caught in a mechanical ice-picker.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, given all the times that Spock's unique abilities were the only way to save the day, it's hard to believe the ship and crew even still exist in the movie era in a Spock-less timeline. I still wish Chimes had explained how they saved Earth from V'Ger without Spock around.
I was tempted to thrown a line into The Tears of Eridanus that Earth had been ravaged by both V'Ger and the whale probe because 1) no Spock 2) Earth wasn't important enough to rush the only ship in the quadrant to anyway.
The idea of an Andorian-dominated polity opens up the possibility that the V'Ger crisis was resolved by an Aenar. Their powerful telepathy might have helped in Spock's absence.
Strange, from what I understood of The Tears of Eridanus, V'Ger digitalized Earth and left, they were unable to solve the crisis.
__________________
The end justifies the means. So do not put canon on a pedestal. We are here to talk Star Trek not only one of its facets.
Hando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 11:20 PM   #30
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Question About "The Chimes at Midnight"

^ No, Earth is still around in the Eridanus timeline. Sulu and Demora describe it as "gone" but that's only because they no longer consider it home.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.