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View Poll Results: How Do You Feel About Driving?
I enjoy driving. For me, driving is a pleasurable activity in its own right. 32 56.14%
I don't mind driving, but I'd just as soon let someone else drive or use public transportation. 13 22.81%
I generally dislike driving and do so only when no practical alternative transporation is available. 5 8.77%
I don't drive at all, don't need to, and don't want to. 7 12.28%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 12 2013, 02:03 AM   #46
Miss Chicken
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

Definitely hugely cheaper. I never wanted to become dependent on a car when I was very low income either. You're just fucked if you need a car to get to work, buy food, take kids to activities or childcare or attend appointments.. your whole LIFE. And because you are poor your car is a piece of crap and it breaks down and costs you hundreds of dollars or a new car to get your whole life back. It's a vicious circle. I remember my friend who was in the same financial situation as me crying on the phone because her car was stuffed, she had to borrow money to fix it, she didn't know how she was going to continue her life while waiting for it to be fixed.. and I was like, you live right next to the train. Your kids school is right next to the train. Your course is right next to the train. The supermarket is right next to the train.. but this was like some psychological impossibility to her.
One of the reasons that I find it so easy to manage on a disability pension is my lack of a car. Many people have tried to pressure me into learning to drive and get a car. The say "what will you do if you can no longer catch a bus?" to which I answer "I will catch a taxi" which is still cheaper than having to buy, maintain and run a car especially as I could apply for disability taxi vouchers which means that I will only have to pay 50% of the taxi fare.

I managed to raise three children without a car. Even paying fares for me and up to three children was still cheaper than running a car and we often walked places (beach, to school and to the park etc).

The first thing I do if a plan to move is look up and see what the bus service is like.

Catching trains is not an option for me as we don't have passenger trains in Tasmania.
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Old September 12 2013, 02:12 AM   #47
Tora Ziyal
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
Leviathan wrote: View Post
Automated cars are the tool of Beelzebub.
Hear, hear!

Even driving with an automatic transmission isn't really driving. It's just aiming the car.
Fortunatly only about 1 in 10 cars sold in the UK are automatics. Not overly kean on driving them. I prefer manual transmission.

So why do people think automatics are prefered in the US whilst manual ais preferred elsewhere?
Can't/won't speak for anyone else in the US, but I'll tell you why I prefer automatics:

When I drove manual years ago, I had a really hard time stopping/starting on hills without rolling backwards. Hard as I tried, I never learned to comfortably maneuver three pedals with two feet. And then, for a summer job, I drove a crotchety old school bus that had to be started in second gear (and it still wasn't very happy about starting). After that, I never wanted to see a manual transmission again in my life.

Also, automatic is easier in emergencies. When I broke my foot a few years ago, I wouldn't have been able to drive for weeks if I'd needed to use both feet. I lived too far from the bus stop to walk w/ a broken foot, and none of my coworkers lived anywhere near me, so I'm not sure how I would've gotten to work every day.

Re "just aiming the car": Nope, I do more than that. In snow, on steep hills, and so on, I drop down to a lower gear. Basically I turn it into a manual w/o the clutch.
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Old September 12 2013, 02:12 AM   #48
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

Yeah people used to pressure me to get a car too Miss Chicken.. "you won't know yourself!" blah de blah. I don't know why it was so important to some people, it wasn't like I ever asked them to do anything lift wise.
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Old September 12 2013, 05:07 AM   #49
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

It must be a mostly American thing. At least where I live(ohio) most look at people without cars as likely having their license taken away from DUI's. Or they think "oh, how quaint".
But, i guess if i lived someplace that had epic public transport i'd use it.
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Old September 12 2013, 05:14 AM   #50
Miss Chicken
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

This is why I don't need a car - my bus service. People can tell me if they consider it good or not. This is the service that goes down the the main road that divides my suburb. I can catch any bus that is listed as stopping at Shoreline Central. The road is about 500 metres from my home. There is a bus service that comes closer to my home but that service only runs a few times on weekdays and not at weekends at all.
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Old September 12 2013, 06:53 AM   #51
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I love driving. I love the control and freedom it gives me. People talk all of the time about subways, buses and other forms of public transportation and I shrug. If the only way I had to get from home to work and back was to plan my day around schedules and to sit next to some woman who smells like burned ocra yell into her phone I'd probably go nuts.

My car is sitting right outside. I can go to it right now and drive to anywhere I want, it's fifty feet away. THAT'S freeing and isn't something I can get from a bus.
This really illustrates that A) different people, and B) different types/levels of public transit service can influence the answer. For me, it's just the opposite: "planning my day around schedules" (and for the record, I would never even think to describe my reliance on public transit in those terms) has never bothered me. Are there snarls sometimes? Sure. A bus can be late, a train can go out of service, etc. But then, a car can break down, you can get stuck in traffic... I view the freedom of knowing that I pay far less to get wherever I'm going, and that I literally can't get stuck in traffic on a train and can zone out or read or whatever if my bus gets stuck in traffic (since I don't have to drive the thing) to far outweigh any benefit I'd have from owning my own car. But, I live in an area with good (not always great, plenty of problems, but overall, quite serviceable) public transit and disliked driving when I tried to learn. I never bothered to even get a license.

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
So, I have a dumb question, I've driven my whole adult life so I'm curious how do people without cars buy groceries? I often can't even get the groceries from my car into my house in one trip. How do you do it?
Others have answered this, but I thought I'd chime in as well: it really depends on how far you live from stores. Not having a car becomes one of the factors that drives the decision about where you want to live: how is the transit in the area? Are there any grocery stores or major commercial areas within walking distance? Those are two of THE most important questions for me when I move - have been for the last decade+ of my life. We have a nice shopping area that covers most essentials within walking distance, and if we (meaning my roommate and I) buy too much to carry back up (it's a 10-15 minute walk each way), there's a bus line that runs from the stores to right up next to our apartment building.

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I like to drive, but it depends on the mood. I realized I had to learn to drive because I was getting so frustrated with the bus system we had. I don't mind the train
Caltrain?
or BART, but taking the bus is awful.
Curious, what part of the Bay Area are you in? I live there as well, in case it isn't obvious. The quality of bus service is quite up and down depending on where you are. AC Transit is mostly ok in the parts of Oakland I live in and frequent, though as a system overall, it's definitely got a lot of room for improvement. Still better on the whole than Muni, though.

Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
It must be a mostly American thing. At least where I live(ohio) most look at people without cars as likely having their license taken away from DUI's. Or they think "oh, how quaint".
To some degree, yeah. It does depend on where you are - the more heavily urbanized an area is, the less likely it is that everyone will have a car, or expect everyone else to have one. That said, the US does have a car culture; as a society at large, we kind of DO expect everyone to have a car. We use and rely on them way too much and have boxed ourselves into a situation where the infrastructure necessary to support alternatives has all been neglected for so long that said alternatives are often not very good; thus, people look at them and say "I'm not using THAT, it's no good. I need a car." Thus, the cycle repeats. Things are slowly starting to improve a little bit, though.

But, i guess if i lived someplace that had epic public transport i'd use it.
You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't. That's part of the problem: the ubiquity of owning a car combined with the state of most American public transit options due to decades of neglect and underfunding have combined to create an atmosphere where many people view public transit as something to be used ONLY when absolutely necessary, or "only for poor people", etc.

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
This is why I don't need a car - my bus service. People can tell me if they consider it good or not. This is the service that goes down the the main road that divides my suburb. I can catch any bus that is listed as stopping at Shoreline Central. The road is about 500 metres from my home. There is a bus service that comes closer to my home but that service only runs a few times on weekdays and not at weekends at all.
*cracks knuckles*

I have never looked at any public transit in Tasmania before this, so it's my first exposure to any part of this system, but based on what I see in the PDF you linked to, this looks pretty solid. The frequency is quite good, and if its on-time rate is high, it'd be very reliable, especially for a suburb. The one thing I really don't like is that it's kind of muddled, with the number of different lines ("606 to 694" immediately gives off the impression of complexity with that huge range of numbers), and it's odd that there are so many different bus numbers to look for if you want to take a given trip. I suppose you'd get used to that after a while, but it's confusing to look it over for the first time. It also does reference seeing more detailed route descriptions and maps elsewhere, so I presume that I'd find more fine-grained, route-by-route information if I poked around their website.
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Old September 12 2013, 07:32 AM   #52
Miss Chicken
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Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

That timetable is for all the buses that travel between the Shoreline shopping and the city.And yes, you are right, most of those buses also appear on simpler separate timetables i.e. Camelot Park (route 615), Howrah Heights (606) Clarendonvale (630) have their own timetable. I am lucky that I can catch several different buses though I refer the Camelot Park or Howrah Heights. We try to avoid what we call the "Bogan Bus" (Clarendonvale) as it final destination is a large public housing estate and is usually crowded and a few of the passengers are a bit rough. However even that bus isn't as bad enough to avoid if we have missed the Camelot Park.

When I moved to Howrah I moved to the suburb that had one of the best bus services in Hobart. Bus timetables would be probablly the first and most important thing I look at before deciding where to move to.

I can get a pensioner day ticket for $3.20 and catch as many buses I like for that price (I think my record for a day is boarding 7 different buses).
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Old September 12 2013, 07:48 AM   #53
Jono
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

I don't mind it. Looking forward to robot cars so I don't have to drive though.
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Old September 12 2013, 08:01 AM   #54
scotpens
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
When I drove manual years ago, I had a really hard time stopping/starting on hills without rolling backwards. Hard as I tried, I never learned to comfortably maneuver three pedals with two feet.
Did you try using the handbrake? That's what I do when I'm stopped on a slope. While keeping right foot on brake pedal, depress clutch with left foot and shift into gear. Apply handbrake, release brake pedal, then apply gas while releasing both clutch and handbrake. Just takes a bit of coordination.
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Old September 12 2013, 08:56 AM   #55
R. Star
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

None of those options really suit me. I drive because it's the quickest and most efficient way to get where I'm going. I can't say I particularly enjoy it, but it beats not getting there or having to rely on other people/public transportation.
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Old September 12 2013, 09:03 AM   #56
Sephiroth
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

my car is my fortress of solitude, my zen zone, my happy place, that is to say, I like driving
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Old September 12 2013, 09:41 AM   #57
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

I actually love riding on trains. I am still like a little kid sometimes, I mean it's not a novelty, I ride them all the time but I still enjoy the experience. People watching, graffiti and backyard watching out the window, talking to random folk, just having reading time.. and they are pretty comfortable too.

I take a lot of trams as well, they cover the inner city areas very effectively. Can't say I particularly enjoy them though, rarely get a seat and the are slow and lurch a lot. But they look cool and the tram system is extensive.

Buses, no fun there, but they do cover some outer areas in between train lines well.
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Old September 12 2013, 10:30 AM   #58
MacLeod
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

scotpens wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
When I drove manual years ago, I had a really hard time stopping/starting on hills without rolling backwards. Hard as I tried, I never learned to comfortably maneuver three pedals with two feet.
Did you try using the handbrake? That's what I do when I'm stopped on a slope. While keeping right foot on brake pedal, depress clutch with left foot and shift into gear. Apply handbrake, release brake pedal, then apply gas while releasing both clutch and handbrake. Just takes a bit of coordination.
Beat me to it. Though I would recommend not releasing the handbrake until you've reached the clutch biting point and you feel the car is ready to go forward, then you can release the handbrake and if you are on the biting point you don't need the brake as the car would remain stationary. Then it's just a case of applying more acceleration and releasing the clutch to move off.

But it's like any other skill you learn to do it, and in Europe you generally learn to drive in a manual so it becomes second nature.
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Old September 12 2013, 12:22 PM   #59
Relayer1
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

teacake wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
So, I have a dumb question, I've driven my whole adult life so I'm curious how do people without cars buy groceries? I often can't even get the groceries from my car into my house in one trip. How do you do it?
I have one supermarket and local shops within 5 minutes walk and two more supermarkets within easy bus reach. I have a large backpack and shop once or twice a week. Occasionally I'll do a really big shop and get a cab.

Your lifestyle develops according to your facilities - I never got a job, childcare or anything else that I needed to drive to get to. My life is perfectly OK without a car.

And hugely cheaper.
Definitely hugely cheaper. I never wanted to become dependent on a car when I was very low income either. You're just fucked if you need a car to get to work, buy food, take kids to activities or childcare or attend appointments.. your whole LIFE. And because you are poor your car is a piece of crap and it breaks down and costs you hundreds of dollars or a new car to get your whole life back. It's a vicious circle. I remember my friend who was in the same financial situation as me crying on the phone because her car was stuffed, she had to borrow money to fix it, she didn't know how she was going to continue her life while waiting for it to be fixed.. and I was like, you live right next to the train. Your kids school is right next to the train. Your course is right next to the train. The supermarket is right next to the train.. but this was like some psychological impossibility to her......

...people would say "oh you don't have a car? do you have a license? Oh.." and they would sound like they were gently talking about your disability in some sympathetic yet bewildered way. It's like saying you can't be bothered having electricity in your house, it makes absolutely no sense to people.
Exactly. People make choices (often unconsciously) and then look for reasons to validate their situation / look for others making the same choices. If you behave differently it challenges that.

I have friends who applied for jobs miles away from where they live and paid a lot of money for their house. Then they had kids. Both need cars - they can't get to work otherwise. As their house cost a bomb they both need to work and both need to be able to drive the kids to or from the childcare/school. They barely see each other. They are hardly unusual, but they are trapped in that cycle.

My wife and I both worked in the nearest city and caught the bus. We purchased an older house in a cheaper area - it's already paid for. We have no mortgage, no loans, no credit card debts, our son went to school at the end of the road. Now he has a short bus journey. We are now part time workers and have enough income to spend £150 for three of us to go and see Black Sabbath soon without worrying about it. Our son has regular PS3 games and has a PS4 on order. We are comfortable.

If we had a bigger house, ran cars and overcommitted ourselves it would be very different. It's a choice...
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Old September 12 2013, 12:35 PM   #60
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Re: How Do You Feel About Driving?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
When I drove manual years ago, I had a really hard time stopping/starting on hills without rolling backwards. Hard as I tried, I never learned to comfortably maneuver three pedals with two feet.
Did you try using the handbrake? That's what I do when I'm stopped on a slope. While keeping right foot on brake pedal, depress clutch with left foot and shift into gear. Apply handbrake, release brake pedal, then apply gas while releasing both clutch and handbrake. Just takes a bit of coordination.
Beat me to it. Though I would recommend not releasing the handbrake until you've reached the clutch biting point and you feel the car is ready to go forward, then you can release the handbrake and if you are on the biting point you don't need the brake as the car would remain stationary. Then it's just a case of applying more acceleration and releasing the clutch to move off.

But it's like any other skill you learn to do it, and in Europe you generally learn to drive in a manual so it becomes second nature.
Yeahl, it gets to the point where you can brake, shift down to first and then find the balance of clutch and gas without even using the handbrake at all.
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