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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 14 2013, 10:39 PM   #76
Mountie1988
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

But that's not my point. My point is: Space is really really big.
Nice try to detract...
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Old September 14 2013, 11:00 PM   #77
SeerSGB
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

But that's not my point. My point is: Space is really really big.
Nice try to detract...
Star Trek has always had a problem with depicting scale when it comes to space. Especially when it comes to space battles. Truth is, if they did it "accurately", it'd be pretty fucking boring cause the ships wouldn't even be in visual range of each other, much less as close as they get in the movies and shows.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:05 PM   #78
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

BillJ wrote: View Post
That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.
Do you have to belittle people with different opinions than yours? I mean, I like the movie, but that doesn't mean I don't have some criticisms. That doesn't mean "I want it to be boring."
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Old September 14 2013, 11:25 PM   #79
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.
Do you have to belittle people with different opinions than yours? I mean, I like the movie, but that doesn't mean I don't have some criticisms. That doesn't mean "I want it to be boring."
After spending four years being belittled over these movies, being called the "drooling masses" and a fan of "least common denominator" fare. A bit of turnabout is fair play.
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Old September 15 2013, 02:24 PM   #80
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Do you honestly think 99% of viewers even noticed or cared about the physics issues of the Enterprise falling to Earth or whether other Starfleet ships came out to fight?
The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.
It's a bit of a Trek staple.

* TMP, Enterprise only ship in range of an attacker that's a couple days from Earth.

* TSFS, Kirk steals the Enterprise and Excelsior is the only ship that tries to run her down. No system patrol ships? No other starships hanging around that could have gave chase. It was pretty clear where Kirk was going, there should have been a half dozen ships dropping out of warp behind him. Hell, the amount of time it took them to hack the spacedoors, there should have been a couple ships waiting.

* GEN, Enterprise B is the only ship in range of the ships in distress.
Hell during all of The Wrath Of Khan I was asking where the rest of the fleet was.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:18 PM   #81
JarodRussell
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

The thing is, in STD Earth has now been attacked TWICE and still no defense system was anywhere to be seen.


In Best of Both Worlds, we got a glimpse of primitive solar system defense, and well the whole Earth defense fleet gathered at Wolf 359. The fleet got complete destroyed, that's why there were no ships left near Earth.

The second time Earth got attacked, there was the First Contact big ass space battle with countless of ships.

And in Voyager Endgame, there was again a whole fleet waiting.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:41 PM   #82
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes.
This worried him?
Tell your brother to "man up". Thats what I'd tell my brother.

What does he think of the Borg queen robocop style - that gives me the creeps but I still endure.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:49 PM   #83
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post
My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes.
This worried him?
Tell your brother to "man up". Thats what I'd tell my brother.

What does he think of the Borg queen robocop style - that gives me the creeps but I still endure.
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Old September 15 2013, 04:53 PM   #84
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The thing is, in STD Earth has now been attacked TWICE and still no defense system was anywhere to be seen.
Why would they need to respond to this situation? There's no threat from an alien probe or enemy vessel. Admiral Marcus presumably told Starfleet that Kirk's crew were in league with the terrorist John Harrison and went rogue in Klingon territory (like he said to Kirk), and that they should stay back until Kirk's crew was apprehended or destroyed. Marcus is the trusted head of Starfleet and has a ship that can take care of itself, Harrison is a known terrorist, and Kirk has a reputation as a loose cannon. There's plenty of reason for other ships to just follow orders and hang back to see how this all plays out. Anything Kirk said after that message from Marcus (like Harrison took over the Vengeance so Starfleet should fire on it) would just seem like disinformation to prompt Starfleet to attack the wrong target, so it would be ignored (As Marcus probably told them to do). By the time the ships started heading toward Earth it was too late to do anything anyway.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:28 PM   #85
JarodRussell
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Presumably, nobody cared when two ships battled it out close to the moon (where, presumably, a few million people live), and then nobody cared, when those two ships fall towards Earth for a couple of minutes. Ships loaded, presumably, with antimatter that could, presumably, obliterate huge chunks of the planet's surface.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:32 PM   #86
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Presumably, nobody cared when two ships battled it out close to the moon (where, presumably, a few million people live), and then nobody cared, when those two ships fall towards Earth for a couple of minutes. Ships loaded, presumably, with antimatter that could, presumably, obliterate huge chunks of the planet's surface.
Starfleet has never really been shown to give a fuck about protecting the Earth.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:34 PM   #87
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Because, as has been pointed out several goddamn times, Marcus was the head of all of Starfleet. You don't take a shit without his permission, nevermind open fire on his ship in Earth orbit.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:44 PM   #88
SeerSGB
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Because, as has been pointed out several goddamn times, Marcus was the head of all of Starfleet. You don't take a shit without his permission, nevermind open fire on his ship in Earth orbit.
Not to mention we don't know if Marcus did (and I'm betting the bastard did, probably during the whole speech about them going rogue) already "warn" them that Kirk had gone rogue and was working with the terrorist and had launched an unauthorized attack on the Klingons. Vengeance was the biggest and baddest in the fleet, even if they did see the fight they were probably taking bets on how long before Marcus kicked Kirk's head in.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:47 PM   #89
J. Allen
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Because, as has been pointed out several goddamn times, Marcus was the head of all of Starfleet. You don't take a shit without his permission, nevermind open fire on his ship in Earth orbit.
Not to mention we don't know if Marcus did (and I'm betting the bastard did, probably during the whole speech about them going rogue) already "warn" them that Kirk had gone rogue and was working with the terrorist and had launched an unauthorized attack on the Klingons. Vengeance was the biggest and baddest in the fleet, even if they did see the fight they were probably taking bets on how long before Marcus kicked Kirk's head in.
The way Marcus talks to Kirk towards the end makes it seem like he's also speaking something into the official record. He's very peculiar about how he responds to Kirk. Everything he says just seems to frame Kirk as this dangerous element who must be stopped.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:47 PM   #90
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Exactly. He had a model of the ship on his desk for possibly years or at least months. His colleages were likely very high up in Starfleet and responsible, in his absense, of sending those orders. They likely saw the ship, put it all together, realised it was him, and let him kick the crap out of Kirk.
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