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Old October 8 2013, 01:32 AM   #91
Warped9
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

The funny thing is while my design evokes MJ's design there are no interchangeable parts and my pre TOS design is more compact and a bit clunkier (for lack of a better term). One thing I do find interesting is how I like the nav-deflector dome. MJ originally planned for some kind of dome but a parabolic antenna design came into play instead. We're used to the antenna now, but what if the dome idea had stuck? I know I had to play around with the shape to get something that seemed to work right, but maybe they didn't hit on the right shape with a dome and so went with an antenna.

Right now I'm playing with colours and materiels. For the main overall hull colour I'm going with a slightly darker grey than the pics show above and with just a hint of cyan to the colour to evoke the TOS hull colour which was grey with a hint of green in the paint under the right lighting.

The nacelles domes apparently were not pure red, but had a measure of wine/magenta to them so I'm trying to evoke that too.

One thing I'm definitely not bothering with is trying to mimic the gridlines no matter how faint. I've never really liked the look of them and they would be a bitch to pull off I think.


The Deadelus concept just doesn't work for me no matter how much I try to play with it. I come to the same conclusion MJ did that when you stick a sphere into the design it immediately looks clunky and awkward.
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Old October 8 2013, 04:34 AM   #92
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The Deadelus concept just doesn't work for me no matter how much I try to play with it. I come to the same conclusion MJ did that when you stick a sphere into the design it immediately looks clunky and awkward.
Did you see the Deadelus model that Madkoifish recently built? You might change your mind.
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Old October 8 2013, 05:21 AM   #93
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
The Deadelus concept just doesn't work for me no matter how much I try to play with it. I come to the same conclusion MJ did that when you stick a sphere into the design it immediately looks clunky and awkward.
Did you see the Deadelus model that Madkoifish recently built? You might change your mind.
Yes, I have seen that and it's very nice. But as a design concept for a pre TOS starship it still bugs me.
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Old October 8 2013, 07:26 AM   #94
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

The first finished renders.



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Old October 8 2013, 02:53 PM   #95
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Although there are a few nitpicky things I could wish I'd done differently I'm generally pleased with the overall end result. The nacelle spikes should be a bit larger and the upper leading edge of the impulse section could be better (much more rounded). The nacelle domes should be a bit darker as well as the navigational deflector dome and colours is something I can easily tweak. I could also add just a bit more detail in some spots, but overall it's allright.
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Old October 8 2013, 11:42 PM   #96
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

A little old school.



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Old October 9 2013, 12:16 AM   #97
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

^Nice! It even has a subtle double image!
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Old October 9 2013, 01:32 AM   #98
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

B.J. wrote: View Post
^Nice! It even has a subtle double image!
A little ghosting is something we could be quite familiar with back in the day. If I had found a good image of a '60s/early '70s era Admiral or Zenith console TV it would have been a real trip in nostalgia for me.




I went with b&w to give the images something of a vintage feel.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:04 PM   #99
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Warped, that is a very cool pre-TOS design! And I love the renders you did with it, especially the vintage looks! Well done!
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Old October 10 2013, 12:38 AM   #100
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Thanks! Presently I'm tweaking it a little. I'm adding a few small and subtle details (you'll have to really look to notice them) and tweaking some of the colours. The nacelle domes have been made a bit darker as is the nav-deflector dome. I've also added just a hint more of green/cyan tint to some of the hull sections.

Part of the colour issue is that colours look darker in SketchUp then they look when rendered. So it gets tricky to get shades just right.

In terms of size comparison you can see how this is distinctly smaller than the Constitution-class even if the saucers were the same diameter. The dorsal is smaller, the secondary hull is smaller, the support pylons are much shorter and the warp nacelles are smaller in diameter and distinctly shorter. The Constitution-class components are not only larger in general but also pushed out further from each other.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:09 PM   #101
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

I think what I like about this design is how you made it look like it could've come from the 1950's...as if Star Trek could've had their start there instead of the '60's. You did say pre-TOS, and you captured that look with great success.

Visions of the future change with each decade. When Enterprise (later Star Trek Enterprise) came out, they had a heck of a time trying to make the technology look older than TOS technology, and yet look cooler than what we have in real-life present day. What you did was capture a look as if Enterprise had been conceived in the '50's, and did so very effectively....in my very humble opinion.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:36 PM   #102
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

I would agree that it does capture the pre-TOS look completely.

For Enterprise, I'd've preferred to see a variant of this particular design without the secondary hull. I think that would've captured the look I'd've done.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:35 PM   #103
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

martok2112 wrote: View Post
I think what I like about this design is how you made it look like it could've come from the 1950's...as if Star Trek could've had their start there instead of the '60's. You did say pre-TOS, and you captured that look with great success.

Visions of the future change with each decade. When Enterprise (later Star Trek Enterprise) came out, they had a heck of a time trying to make the technology look older than TOS technology, and yet look cooler than what we have in real-life present day. What you did was capture a look as if Enterprise had been conceived in the '50's, and did so very effectively....in my very humble opinion.
Although my b&w images evoke a vintage feeling I didn't conciously set out to make the ship look like it could have been designed in the 1950s. The ideas of the future were different in the '50s then a decade later as best evidenced by the sci-fi films made at the time such as Forbidden Planet. I simply tried to find a design that looked somewhat less evolved than what we saw in TOS yet still look convincing if we'd actually seen it onscreen. The Botany Bay in "Space Seed" certainly looks distinctly more primitive than the Enterprise, but it doesn't look like it was designed in the '50s or any previous decade.

Admittedly ENT had a challenge: how to depict a pre TOS era without looking dated. They tackled that by mostly ignoring the issue to satisfy their idea of general audience expectations. But I think they compounded the problem by ignoring a lot of other things that didn't seem right in a pre TOS era. They introduced too many familiar elements introduced in the the TNG era series and treated their prehistory setting as if it were little different than the TNG era setting. Instead of trying to create a setting that seemed somewhat familiar yet also largely different they basically redressed what they already had and went with that. It didn't really feel like the "opening up of the galaxy" because we saw so much (too much) of what we were already familiar with.


Some simple beauty shots.



And what if...

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Old October 10 2013, 06:00 PM   #104
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

And here is a quick and dirty approximate size comparison to ponder.



In terms of dimensions then try these.

Hercules-class star clipper
L.O.A. = 750.560 ft. (228.770m)
W.O.A. = 320.564 ft (97.707m).
H.O.A. = 189.892 ft. (57.879m)

Vanguard-class star cruiser
L.O.A. = 707.906 ft. (215.769m)
W.O.A. = 394.945 ft. (120.379m)
H.O.A. = 215.439 ft. (65.665m)

Size can be misleading and most particularly length. The clipper is the second longest of the ships in comparison yet it has the least amount of interior space due to it's configuration (and it's the narrowest and shortest in height) and the bulkier machinery and systems of its era. Nacelle size is also deceptive. The nacelles of the ships in comparison aren't that different in overall size and yet the clipper is definitely the slowest (though not really that much slower than the star cruiser) and yet both are significantly slower than the TOS era ships.

If I had to guess in terms of deadweight with the Constitution-class being 190,000 then I'd peg the Vanguard-class at about 120,000-140,000 tons and the Hercules-class at about 110,000 tons.

There is a conceptual evolution at work here, but there's a missing link (and maybe two) between the Vanguard and the Hercules I haven't worked up yet. The class preceding the Vanguard could be very much like my original drawings for this design.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:45 AM   #105
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Re: Pre TOS star cruiser....

Really beautiful work, Warped9.
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