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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 6 2013, 10:54 PM   #91
Opus
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Re: Orci strikes back

Yeah, I can think of plenty of reasons why they would find themselves on a Trek website.

They are fans too!

We have plenty of folks on here who have contributed to the creative direction of Trek - writers, production designers, etc. And they have never had a problem telling someone to bang off when they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
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Old September 6 2013, 10:58 PM   #92
M.A.C.O.
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Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
STID to me seems like an epic piece of fanfiction Orci, Lindeolf and Kurtzman wrote together. To live out their childhood dreams of remaking Khan.
They worked hard and worked their way up through the business to put themselves in that position. How dare they?
It's not meant to be an insult on their creative liberty, just and observation from a conscientious objector. They rebooted the franchise and on their second time out of the gate redo the most iconic villain of Star Trek. It's like if Abrams revived Darth Vader in Episode VII, because of his renowned reputation as Star Wars' greatest villain. There are rumors that Disney wants to revive Vader btw.

I still have the Entertainment Weekly from 2009 where Orci and Kurtzman talk about rebooting as a way to free themselves of 40+ years of continuity. STID pays homage to much of continuity of the primeverse. It has a been there/seen that feel to it. Except this time you're seeing it with new faces and $175,000,000 budget.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:01 PM   #93
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Re: Orci strikes back

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The forum would seriously suck if they also censored talk regarding public figures. I like being able to call Orci a douchebag or Obama a tosser. A good forum has as few rules regarding opinions that can be expressed as possible.
I enjoy the privilege of calling out public figures and would rather be allowed to do that, but it strikes me as hypocritical that membership on a forum bestows protection from ad hominems. So if a public figure like Orci wants to protect himself from abuse, just become a member of the forum and suddenly the rules change. It doesn't exactly seem fair to the public figure.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:05 PM   #94
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Re: Orci strikes back

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post

It's not meant to be an insult on their creative liberty, just and observation from a conscientious objector. They rebooted the franchise and on their second time out of the gate redo the most iconic villain of Star Trek. It's like if Abrams revived Darth Vader in Episode VII, because of his renowned reputation as Star Wars' greatest villain. There are rumors that Disney wants to revive Vader btw.
People seem to think that Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof had free rein to do whatever they wanted and I'm pretty sure that simply isn't the case. They had to create a script that satisfied both Abrams and Paramount.

If I'm not mistaken, the change to Khan happened pretty late in the game and that may have been forced upon them by either Abrams or Paramount or both.

So the "they wrote the script so we're going to treat them like shit" doesn't actually take into account what may have been happening behind the scenes. So it seems pointless to waste time and energy tearing down the writing team (though it's pointless anyway).
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Old September 6 2013, 11:05 PM   #95
Set Harth
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Re: Orci strikes back

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
There are rumors that Disney wants to revive Vader btw.
What does that mean though? They always have the option of doing a Dark Times film. Or does it mean bringing him back from the dead in the sequels, in some nonsensical way that craps all over ROTJ? I think Lucas still has enough involvement, however limited, to head that one off at the pass. There are still ways they could use the character that would make sense, though. But it sounds like obvious rumormongering by the usual suspects in the fanboy community...
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Old September 6 2013, 11:07 PM   #96
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post

I enjoy the privilege of calling out public figures and would rather be allowed to do that, but it strikes me as hypocritical that membership on a forum bestows protection from ad hominems. So if a public figure like Orci wants to protect himself from abuse, just become a member of the forum and suddenly the rules change. It doesn't exactly seem fair to the public figure.
Or we could generally act like adults and focus on criticizing the work and not call the creative people names.

I find it absolutely fucking hilarious that people go on about how they got into Star Trek because of its philosophy then pretty much ignore that philosophy because they don't like a movie.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:11 PM   #97
DalekJim
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Re: Orci strikes back

Orci isn't a twat because his stories are full of holes. Plenty of nice people are bad writers. He's a twat because of how he carries himself in interviews. His explanation for why Khan is white in STID is one of the most obnoxious, embarrassing quotes in Trek history.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:13 PM   #98
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Re: Orci strikes back

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
He should clearly know better at 40 how to handle himself, especially if he's a public figure. He's an IMMATURE 40-year old arrogant privileged pissant.
So what's your excuse? You've said everything he did and then some.
Because I'm not a public figure and I didn't write the movie. That's my excuse. And I don't believe I ever told someone to fuck off. I may use colorful metaphors, but they're not directed.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:16 PM   #99
BillJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post

Because I'm not a public figure and I didn't write the movie. That's my excuse. And I don't believe I ever told someone to fuck off. I may use colorful metaphors, but they're not directed.
So you're free to act like a child because you aren't a public figure?
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Old September 6 2013, 11:24 PM   #100
JWPlatt
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Re: Orci strikes back

DalekJim wrote: View Post
...His explanation for why Khan is white in STID is one of the most obnoxious, embarrassing quotes in Trek history.
Quote or link?
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Old September 6 2013, 11:26 PM   #101
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Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
I find it absolutely fucking hilarious that people go on about how they got into Star Trek because of its philosophy then pretty much ignore that philosophy because they don't like a movie.
Sounds a lot like religion.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:30 PM   #102
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I find it absolutely fucking hilarious that people go on about how they got into Star Trek because of its philosophy then pretty much ignore that philosophy because they don't like a movie.
Sounds a lot like religion.
Indeed it does.

I got into Star Trek when I was five. The reason I got into it was because of cool spaceships and action scenes. Sometimes it'll have a message squirreled away somewhere in an episode, most times it doesn't.

So I tend to not give big screen Trek that wants to emulate that formula too much shit.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:31 PM   #103
Opus
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Sounds a lot like religion.
Yeah, Trek fandom should hold themselves to higher standards.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:36 PM   #104
Nagisa Furukawa
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
...His explanation for why Khan is white in STID is one of the most obnoxious, embarrassing quotes in Trek history.
Quote or link?
Robert Orci wrote:
Basically, as we went the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of middle eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race.
If Orci had said, "Hey, the old series Khan went from a Mexican playing an Asian to a Mexican playing a Caucasian so we felt like we had some racial liberty" or "Hey, we just went for the best actor period," I'd have 0 problem. But in his attempt to be PC, his quote suggests white actors should be given Asian roles instead of Asian actors just because it's the villain and that (depending on if he meant the first personal plural "us" or "U.S.") the villain must be white to make him seem like he's one of the audience or the villain must be white to make him seem like he could be from the United States. It's a quote so clearly trying to be like, "Hey, I support people of color, guys!" but just comes across as offensive to everyone.
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Old September 6 2013, 11:38 PM   #105
Opus
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Re: Orci strikes back

"Great Muppet Caper, Batman!"
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