RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,231
Posts: 5,405,858
Members: 24,762
Currently online: 636
Newest member: PaulHicks

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 13 2013, 04:13 PM   #391
ComicGuy89
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/13/edit...roken/#5166708

The rebuttal by our very own The Stig.

Nicely done!
I agree. For me, TNG created a new era of Star Trek fans. TNG and all shows since then (including Enterprise) had a certain style and aesthetic that was very much different from that of TOS. This contrast is remarkably visible in Generations, where the style shifted dramatically between the scenes with the Enterprise-B and the later Enterprise-D scenes.

I think the Abrams movies have created another era of fans, but there's a reason you usually see these newer fans discover classic Trek by watching TOS. In my opinion, that's because the Abrams fans really hearken back to what TOS was all about: fun, swashbuckling adventure among a group of close-knit team members.

That's not to say one is more "Star Trek" than the other, what I am simply saying is that TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the reboot movies are all Star Trek in their own unique ways, and that the reboot evokes TOS more strongly while the other post-TNG shows evoked TNG more.
ComicGuy89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:45 PM   #392
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Orci strikes back

Tosk wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Who said it was? What if an actress or actor of a different race was simply the best person for the role?
That already happened. John Cho was cast as Sulu despite not being Japanese.
Japanese is a race?

That a bit like saying Pegg and Doohan were different races than Scotty. Or Nichols is a different race than Uhura since Uhura speaks Swahili ( a language common in East Africa) while Nichols ancestry is presumably West African.

Sulu isn't even a Japanese name. And apparently some of his ancestors lived in San Francisco's Chinatown during the 20th Century.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.

Last edited by Nerys Myk; September 13 2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: More thoughts.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:36 PM   #393
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Orci strikes back

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
What if an actress or actor of a different race was simply the best person for the role? You going to sit there and say that even with a homerun script and stellar cast, the there wouldn't be a monsoon of Trek-rage if Kirk is anything but a white boy from Iowa.
Of course. But who cares?

Please, the zealots in our fandom have confused later day (TNG+) Trek with Star Trek (the series) to the point that they can't even see TOS for what it was--they didn't drink the Kool-aid, they guzzled it, speedballed it into their eyes, and then bathed in it. When they say new and original, the mean the same old stories but with flashier special effects.
I completely agree with this, and my hope for the future of Trek is that the influence of the later spinoffs wanes and eventually disappears completely.

I want a good Star Trek reboot that really makes me feel like I'm in the future, that Spock is really an alien, and that the galaxy is a great big question mark. Jettison most of the established Trek aliens (especially all of the TNG-era aliens) and any other facts taken for granted which came later than TOS. When does Trek take place? The 23rd Century? Nope, not according to TOS. Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.

One can dream...
ComicGuy89 wrote: View Post
I agree. For me, TNG created a new era of Star Trek fans. TNG and all shows since then (including Enterprise) had a certain style and aesthetic that was very much different from that of TOS. This contrast is remarkably visible in Generations, where the style shifted dramatically between the scenes with the Enterprise-B and the later Enterprise-D scenes.
No, for me what was jarring is that the ENT-B scenes were written with the TNG-aesthetic and style in mind. Scotty was trying to mouth Berman-Trek technobabble, and it was embarrassing. It didn't feel like TOS at all. It felt less like TOS than the Abrams films did, IMO.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:40 PM   #394
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.
I don't know if I agree with this or not. But I know it will never happen. Spock's look is one of those things that are intertwined with Star Trek and is unlikely to ever change.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:41 PM   #395
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: Orci strikes back

George Takei is Japanese. Sulu is Chinese.
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:46 PM   #396
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.
I don't know if I agree with this or not. But I know it will never happen. Spock's look is one of those things that are intertwined with Star Trek and is unlikely to ever change.
Spock's look was kind of typically alien, so I wouldn't call it "unfamiliar". Pointed ears, greenish skin and arched eyebrows were stereotypical even in the 60s.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:46 PM   #397
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci strikes back

Opus wrote: View Post
George Takei is Japanese. Sulu is Chinese.
Other than being "pan-Asian", did they ever tell us who he was descended from? We know he was born in San Francisco, but other than that I thought his ancestry was a blank slate.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:47 PM   #398
ComicGuy89
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Orci strikes back

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.
I don't know if I agree with this or not. But I know it will never happen. Spock's look is one of those things that are intertwined with Star Trek and is unlikely to ever change.
Spocks look was kind of typically alien, so I wouldn't call it "unfamiliar". Pointed ears, greenish skin and arched eyebrows were stereotypical even in the 60s.
They did make the effort to always point out that he looked like a demon too. His look was definitely a familiar one, if not exactly a comfortable one.
ComicGuy89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:55 PM   #399
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/13/edit...roken/#5166708

The rebuttal by our very own The Stig.

Nicely done!
From the article:
Star Trek isn’t (and never has been) particularly effective on that front. It’s always played it safe, with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the “issues” presented.
So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 05:59 PM   #400
ComicGuy89
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/13/edit...roken/#5166708

The rebuttal by our very own The Stig.

Nicely done!
From the article:
Star Trek isn’t (and never has been) particularly effective on that front. It’s always played it safe, with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the “issues” presented.
So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
"Better" is subjective. A film can be better by delving into social issues and philosophy, but it can also be better by focusing instead on characterization, action and drama. It can be better in a lot of ways.

Of course you could argue a good film could focus on all these things, but I guess they just wanted to focus on one thing.
ComicGuy89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 06:00 PM   #401
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.
I don't know if I agree with this or not. But I know it will never happen. Spock's look is one of those things that are intertwined with Star Trek and is unlikely to ever change.
I agree, it's not going to happen, but it would be nice to make Spock a little mysterious again. He's so familiar now, and with filmmakers' ability to create really alien-looking aliens now, Spock just looks like a human next to them.

Of course, there's the fact that Spock is half human. In a future production you could have Vulcans with really severe features, whereas Spock would look like a human with pointed ear. He would be obviously different from both humans and Vulcans, isoated from both. It might make for an interesting character dynamic, and make him seem really alien again (a race of one, by his reckoning) in an age when we could have other crazy-looking aliens walking around in the Enterprise corridors.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 06:01 PM   #402
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
No offense, but this sounds like complaining just to complain.

Nothing stops Abrams from doing anything he likes with the franchise but it still has to sell tickets. I am perfectly happy with how the pat answers and trite conclusions were presented in Into Darkness.

But then, I'm not looking for Star Trek to shape or challenge my worldview.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 06:03 PM   #403
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Of course, there's the fact that Spock is half human. In a future production you could have Vulcans with really severe features, whereas Spock would look like a human with pointed ear. He would be obviously different from both humans and Vulcans, isoated from both. It might make for an interesting character dynamic, and make him seem really alien again (a race of one, by his reckoning) in an age when we could have other crazy-looking aliens walking around in the Enterprise corridors.
I don't say this very often: the above is a great idea.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 06:03 PM   #404
The Stig
Rear Admiral
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Location: Dunsfold Aerodrome, Surrey
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/13/edit...roken/#5166708

The rebuttal by our very own The Stig.

Nicely done!
From the article:
Star Trek isn’t (and never has been) particularly effective on that front. It’s always played it safe, with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the “issues” presented.
So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
Nothing, of course.

The point is that he went another way entirely. He focused on the crew and their relationships, rather than a forced and overwrought 'issue' to define the movie.

I think it's a far better movie for it.
__________________
Some say that he was the first choice to play the new Doctor but turned it down when he couldn't put racing stripes on the TARDIS.

All we know is, he's called The Stig.
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 06:10 PM   #405
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: Orci strikes back

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
From the article:
Star Trek isn’t (and never has been) particularly effective on that front. It’s always played it safe, with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the “issues” presented.
So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
Abrams set out to make TOS current and viable for the big screen. I think what The Stig is saying is TOS was never particularly as good as fans claim about attacking the "issues". Rose-colored glasses from both fans AND Gene Roddenberry himself. With STiD, I believe he is saying that JJ actually nailed it (TOS).

So... are you saying JJ should have done better than even that? Better than TOS actually ever did?
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.