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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 10 2013, 04:36 PM   #256
KirkusOveractus
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Re: Orci strikes back

Once someone makes mention of Abrams as "Jar Jar", then I kind of stop reading and know that your points won't be based on any kind of fact but by personal feelings. You lose credibility and aren't really open to discussing the matter.
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Old September 10 2013, 05:00 PM   #257
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Re: Orci strikes back

Uh, this idea TOS wasn't very good is IMO an attitude born in hindsight from decades of re-evaluating it, back it the day it was the best thing on TV - again, imo. Conversations always focused on what it did right or was interesting & topical about it with very little emphasis on the errors of its ways. The first person I recall openly criticizing it in a wholly negative way was Rick Berman.
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Old September 10 2013, 05:05 PM   #258
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Re: Orci strikes back

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Uh, this idea TOS wasn't very good is IMO an attitude born in hindsight from decades of re-evaluating it, back it the day it was the best thing on TV - again, imo. Conversations always focused on what it did right or was interesting & topical about it with very little emphasis on the errors of its ways. The first person I recall openly criticizing it in a wholly negative way was Rick Berman.
I think the biggest thing that acknowledges the awesome quality of TOS is that people are still looking for reasons to tear it down nearly fifty-years after it premiered.
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Old September 10 2013, 06:17 PM   #259
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Re: Orci strikes back

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I blame Lindelof. He was the one who fucked up Prometheus with the unnnecccesssarrry Alien plot and the utterly stupid characters who basically killed themselves because they went full retard.
Have you read Jon Spaihts' original draft of Prometheus? It reads like the bad Alien fan-fiction that people apparently wanted Prometheus to be. It's a disaster.
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Old September 10 2013, 06:21 PM   #260
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Re: Orci strikes back

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Uh, this idea TOS wasn't very good is IMO an attitude born in hindsight from decades of re-evaluating it, back it the day it was the best thing on TV - again, imo. Conversations always focused on what it did right or was interesting & topical about it with very little emphasis on the errors of its ways. The first person I recall openly criticizing it in a wholly negative way was Rick Berman.
Yea, I actually haven't heard anyone use that defense of the movies. The mention just recently in this thread of it being a weak defense, is the first I've heard of it even being a defense. Why would anyone put forward a defense of "Well, xxxxxxx, wasn't very good anyways"?
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Old September 10 2013, 06:35 PM   #261
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Re: Orci strikes back

Yorkshire Niner wrote: View Post
We need to have a Trekkie Civil War to sort this out!

All the fans who like intelligent, well-made, well-written, long running TV shows (with the occasional fun film) and aren't prepared to completely forget about TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on one side.

And fans who like massive action sequences, CGI special effects and a 'modern' remake of a 1960s TV series on the other.

Let battle commence!!!
You do that, Jar-Jar. Have lots of fun with it.

On some other forum.

To everyone else: stop feeding the troll, please. It only encourages them to stick around.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:14 PM   #262
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Re: Orci strikes back

Timby wrote: View Post
Have you read Jon Spaihts' original draft of Prometheus? It reads like the bad Alien fan-fiction that people apparently wanted Prometheus to be. It's a disaster.
Good point, but... Ignoring the fans to give them what you, as the writer or director, want instead of what they want is a recipe for disaster - as it was with Prometheus. If Prometheus II continues to diverge in the way that Ridley Scott wishes without answering the questions that fans of Alien want to learn, it will again be a disaster.

Scott's inspiration was to focus on answering the question of who was the Space Jockey. We had this huge, beautiful creature in a crashed spaceship on LV-426. What the fans got was not that ship or that moon. And it was not that creature, but a different creature in a different ship on a different moon. And, importantly, what were clearly bones in the original were changed into spacesuit instead to fit the plot, ignoring what fans really wanted to learn.

Lindelof and Scott did not answer the question they set out to answer - the one fans wanted - and now there is no recovery because they could not possibly change the spacesuit back into bones. We will never learn why that particular alien is in that particular ship on that particular moon. Nor will we see the creature that inhabited those bones. It's lost to us because the writer and director did not give the fans what they wanted. If there is a different agenda for the film and it wishes to ask bigger questions, as were the ambitions of Prometheus, fine, but make damn sure you honor fan expectations without insulting their intelligence along the way.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:21 PM   #263
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post

Good point, but... Ignoring the fans to give them what you, as the writer or director, want instead of what they want is a recipe for disaster...
But which fans do you listen too? If you ask twenty-five Star Trek fans what they want, you'd likely receive twenty-five different answers.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:27 PM   #264
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Re: Orci strikes back

I actually liked Orci's response to this: we listen and then we decide. Scott and Lindelof decided badly and it didn't appear they listened much at all.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:30 PM   #265
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Re: Orci strikes back

Wasn't Prometheus a reboot, and if so, doesn't that negate the importance of those questions as the franchise is now building new pathways? [sorry, off topic]
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Old September 10 2013, 07:33 PM   #266
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
I actually liked Orci's response to this: we listen and then we decide. Scott and Lindelof decided badly and it didn't appear they listened much at all.
All I know is that Roddenberry said if he listened to fans, Star Trek would be shit. Based on some fan ideas I've seen, I tend to agree.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:37 PM   #267
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Re: Orci strikes back

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Wasn't Prometheus a reboot...
No, it was a parallel story in the same reality or universe. And the same silliness about whether it was a prequel or not (it was) reminds me alot of the silliness behind denying STID brought back Kahn. Lindelof was deeply involved in both and, according to his co-writers, was responsible for Kahn. Hmmm.... Silly guy.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:38 PM   #268
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
The Keeper wrote: View Post
Wasn't Prometheus a reboot...
No, it was a parallel story in the same universe. And the same silliness about whether it was a prequel or not (it was) reminds me alot of the silliness behind denying STID brought back Kahn. Lindelof was deeply in volved in both films and, according to his co-writers, was responsible for Kahn. Hmmm.... Silly guy.
I had always heard it was a reboot. Sure played like a reboot.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:46 PM   #269
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Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
The Keeper wrote: View Post
Wasn't Prometheus a reboot...
No, it was a parallel story in the same universe. And the same silliness about whether it was a prequel or not (it was) reminds me alot of the silliness behind denying STID brought back Kahn. Lindelof was deeply in volved in both films and, according to his co-writers, was responsible for Kahn. Hmmm.... Silly guy.
I had always heard it was a reboot. Sure played like a reboot.
Man, you pounce on my posts so fast that my edits don't have time to settle in.

And once again: No. It was not a reboot. And, for the record, I'm growing to despise that word. As if movies or franchises were computer systems. And I think whole fad itself growing quite tiresome, but I guess that's for a different thread.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:57 PM   #270
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Re: Orci strikes back

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post

No, it was a parallel story in the same universe. And the same silliness about whether it was a prequel or not (it was) reminds me alot of the silliness behind denying STID brought back Kahn. Lindelof was deeply in volved in both films and, according to his co-writers, was responsible for Kahn. Hmmm.... Silly guy.
I had always heard it was a reboot. Sure played like a reboot.
Man, you pounce on my posts so fast that my edits don't have time to settle in.

And once again: No. It was not a reboot. And, for the record, I'm growing to despise that word. As if movies or franchises were computer systems. And I think whole fad itself growing quite tiresome, but I guess that's for a different thread.
Fad? We've been retelling the same stories for thousands of years. All of Shakespeare's classics were retellings of other works. There are no new stories, there are simply new arrangements.
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