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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 242 56.02%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 71 16.44%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 48 11.11%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 63 14.58%
I don't know. 8 1.85%
Voters: 432. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 31 2014, 06:35 AM   #1321
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
It also makes sense to treat as suspect a self-sealing assumption that modern audiences can only connect with very basic effects-driven action content.
Movies aren't greenlit until the script and key personnel are approved by professionals whose job it is to judge what audiences will flock to see. The suits are sometimes wrong, and sometimes majorly so. But they're not always wrong either. If there's any truth to the idea that the big studios believe "that audiences can only connect with very basic effects-driven action content" [emphasis mine], then it might be educational to find out what specific data they are supporting that assumption with.

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CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
intelligent, entertaining, heroic, romantic, sad, funny, serious, action-packed, intriguing, hopeful, ....
One could say the same thing about you.
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Old July 31 2014, 08:11 AM   #1322
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
If there's any truth to the idea that the big studios believe "that audiences can only connect with very basic effects-driven action content" [emphasis mine], then it might be educational to find out what specific data they are supporting that assumption with.
I don't know whether the suits believe that or not, although in fairness the long-term pattern -- finally fully realized in AbramsTrek -- of trying to make Star Trek into a tentpole action franchise does hint in that direction. But I took wulfio to be objecting to fan assumptions along these lines.
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Old July 31 2014, 04:11 PM   #1323
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Prime Trek? You mean, something like Universal Century in Gundam? I wonder though if it's easy enough to put in a good story to fit the setting and context.
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Old July 31 2014, 04:50 PM   #1324
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Drekstar wrote: View Post
Prime Trek? You mean, something like Universal Century in Gundam? I wonder though if it's easy enough to put in a good story to fit the setting and context.
The basic premises of TOS and TNG was that of a starship out in space having all sorts of different adventures (the mention of exploration in their intros was just an excuse for why they were wandering out there in the first place). With the right writers and producers, all sorts of good stories, characters, and specific plots can be derived from that basic premise that can be unique to a particular series with occasional stuff pulled from its predecessors that could be sometimes used as backstory or a source for new stories, IMO.
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Old August 4 2014, 07:14 AM   #1325
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
If there's any truth to the idea that the big studios believe "that audiences can only connect with very basic effects-driven action content" [emphasis mine], then it might be educational to find out what specific data they are supporting that assumption with.
I don't know whether the suits believe that or not, although in fairness the long-term pattern -- finally fully realized in AbramsTrek -- of trying to make Star Trek into a tentpole action franchise does hint in that direction. But I took wulfio to be objecting to fan assumptions along these lines.
Yes Jake it seems you understand the argument I was trying to make.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
then it might be educational to find out what specific data they are supporting that assumption with.
There's a good deal of film/tv cliche's, in every era. When those specific cliche's get tired, a new era begins, some innovators break ground, and the rest start emulating them. For instance, we usually laugh at dance sequences now, or we don't dedicate 10 minutes of run time to people just driving and parking cars with absolutely no advancement of the plot. For today's time, soon(I hope) we will be laughing at things like music montages at the end of a tv episode, with sappy music playing, while people are being introspective. People recycle the same techniques in film and television to just fill up space, or elicit specific responses from the audience. There are specific beats that need to be hit at specific points in a story for it to be "successful". I find a lot of movies and television to be very formulaic. And the structure is determined by what cliche's are current for that specific genre in the majority of cases.

As for determining what the market wants, I think it's just studying market trends, and utilizing those well established formula for creating movies/tv shows. When I was still in school I did a project analyzing tv ratings and various forms of distribution. I derived my analysis and conclusions from just the previous 20 years of genre tv ratings, and market shares for the various forms of distribution in that time as well. With that limited data, my conclusions and forecasted trends were completely accurate. I can imagine with the sort of statistics those studio's have available to them, they can predict trends and plan a hell of a lot more than a college student could back in 02 or whatever.

So, I think it's a combination of the current era's cliche's, hitting all the beats, and just knowing what the current market is in to, or is trending to.
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Old September 4 2014, 11:39 PM   #1326
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Bumping for the new members.
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Old September 5 2014, 03:31 AM   #1327
I am not Spock
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Another cliche which seems very old hat now, is the 'characters sitting around laughing at a joke at the end of the episode'. Quite a few TOS episodes end this way, with McCoy and Kirk laughing at Spock's expense. Despite all the red shirts who perished in the episode. It worked for that time, but it wouldn't if you resurrected that formula now.
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Old September 6 2014, 06:58 PM   #1328
Marika
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Prime line for life !
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Old September 7 2014, 02:38 AM   #1329
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I am not Spock wrote: View Post
Another cliche which seems very old hat now, is the 'characters sitting around laughing at a joke at the end of the episode'. Quite a few TOS episodes end this way, with McCoy and Kirk laughing at Spock's expense. Despite all the red shirts who perished in the episode. It worked for that time, but it wouldn't if you resurrected that formula now.
The Prime timeline isn't a formula, it's the contiguous history from the first episode of the original series to Voyager's last.
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Old September 7 2014, 03:35 AM   #1330
Lt. LaForge
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post

The Prime timeline isn't a formula, it's the contiguous history from the first episode of the original series to Voyager's last.
WRONG. It's the contiguous history from the first episode of Enterprise to Voyager's last.
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Old September 7 2014, 03:48 AM   #1331
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Lt. LaForge wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post

The Prime timeline isn't a formula, it's the contiguous history from the first episode of the original series to Voyager's last.
WRONG. It's the contiguous history from the first episode of Enterprise to Voyager's last.
Also: the earliest event in the Prime Universe took place in Voyager's "Death Wish", at the birth of the universe, and a recollection of the latest took place in Star Trek (2009), in the mind meld, of Spock trying to save Romulus (at least, IIRC). We could say that the prime timeline is the continuous history from Voyager to nuTrek, from a certain point of view.
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Old September 7 2014, 03:58 AM   #1332
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I am not Spock wrote: View Post
Another cliche which seems very old hat now, is the 'characters sitting around laughing at a joke at the end of the episode'. Quite a few TOS episodes end this way, with McCoy and Kirk laughing at Spock's expense. Despite all the red shirts who perished in the episode. It worked for that time, but it wouldn't if you resurrected that formula now.
The Prime timeline isn't a formula, it's the contiguous history from the first episode of the original series to Voyager's last.
A history with a lot of conflicting information.
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Old September 7 2014, 08:38 AM   #1333
Lt. LaForge
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

Also: the earliest event in the Prime Universe took place in Voyager's "Death Wish", at the birth of the universe, and a recollection of the latest took place in Star Trek (2009), in the mind meld, of Spock trying to save Romulus (at least, IIRC). We could say that the prime timeline is the continuous history from Voyager to nuTrek, from a certain point of view.
No other form of TV entertainment can entertain yet confuse to the same level Trek does...
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Old September 7 2014, 03:53 PM   #1334
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^Ever watch Lost?
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Old September 7 2014, 04:02 PM   #1335
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Although I like to pretend ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY are all one neat future history, it doesn't hold up if you look closely. What happened in "Year of Hell" kinda makes you wonder which episodes took place between which blasts of Annorax's BFG.
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