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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 196 56.32%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 16.38%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 10.92%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 51 14.66%
I don't know. 6 1.72%
Voters: 348. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 20 2014, 08:39 PM   #1231
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.
In the post of his that you quoted from, Hober Mallow was making the point that all spin-offs are derivative of TOS, from TNG to STID. He said "prime" Trek not prime universe.
It's an unwontedly nit-picky point the reasons for which I still don't understand. It is not controversial that Berman-era Trek was meant to be part of the same universe as TOS Trek, their being spin-offs has nothing to do with that and they're pretty clearly not "reboot" or "alternate universe" material in the way that NuTrek is. That's exactly why the "Prime" notation for "Spock Prime" makes sense on an automatic, intuitive level. You can force them into some kind of similar frame on a technicality, but what for? Seems to me that it's a counterintuitive and futile exercise.
You'd have to ask him why he thought it was a distinction worth making. I'm not sure. I completely agree with the parts in your post that I've boldfaced, and have only minor qualifications about the rest (by which I mean, this whole issue isn't really of major importance overall, even just in relation to Star Trek).

I think it's clear that Berman-era Trek has a completely different style from TOS. There are all sorts of reasons why that is to be expected. The time difference in when they were made is perhaps the most significant. But there is also a change in venue: cable television in the 1990s as opposed to network television in the 1960s.

The shift to theatrical film in the 2010s (or thereabouts) is, in those terms, another change in venue. On that basis alone, change is to be expected. TOS-proper underwent changes, simply as a result of making the transition to film back in 1979.

Given all this change that is simply a natural result of the march of time and changes in venue, I don't believe it makes sense to say that all Trek taking place in the Prime Universe intrinsically belongs together in every way and nuTrek is intrinsically apart from all that. The takeaway I was getting from what Hober Mallow said was that the unifying factor for Prime Universe Trek is something essentially only nominal in nature, and the clear implication there is that the difference between that and nuTrek isn't a large enough distinction to separate nuTrek from the rest as something that is in every way dissimilar from all the spin-offs we've had before. With that, I agree.
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Old July 28 2014, 12:55 PM   #1232
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I'm a bit torn on this question & poll really.

The simple fact is, the chances of Prime coming back is very unlikely now, for reasons I'm sure we all understand. Perhaps not impossible but unlikely.

Trek doesn't need it, however, to survive. It exists on in the lit-verse, Online etc… and while not canon, it feels as good as. Until we get a Star Wars-ian overhaul of the expanded relaunch universe, I for one will treat much of that *as* canon & enjoy them.

What does seem pointless to me, however, is simply remaking all Trek shows past in the same timelines. In fan fiction, sure - a TNG reboot, DS9, VOY, all entertaining, but on TV if they went down that route would seem very pointless. TOS rebooted on the big screen makes sense because Kirk & Spock & co are iconic beyond the series, but you can only perhaps say the same for Picard & Data from the rest (and that's pushing it). If we're staying in the Rebooted timeline, any further show would be best leaping forward to, say, the 25th century & doing something new beyond the TNG-era in that new timeline.

So yeah… it is a bit sad Prime is probably gone but Trek as a concept can survive any timeline.
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Old July 28 2014, 06:31 PM   #1233
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

VST wrote: View Post
The simple fact is, the chances of Prime coming back is very unlikely now, for reasons I'm sure we all understand.
To the bulk of the viewesr of any new Trek series, the difference between prime and alternate universes is meaningless. Non-fans will far out number knowledgable hardcore fans.

But to those harcore fans which universe the series is set in will be important. The network will likely want them, and this matter is important enough that some fans won't watch consistantly a alternate universe show, won't talk it up on social media, won't buy the mechandise.

It's alway foolish to piss off your base, a series isn't like a ever four years summer movie.

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Old July 28 2014, 06:37 PM   #1234
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Oh I completely understand that, but from a financial standpoint they're presumably going to want to drag in as many of the new punters from the movies to watch the TV show, and the Prime would I'm sure confuse them a fair bit were it suddenly leapt back into.

I do agree though these things matter to the hardcore. The irony is, that hardcore probably wouldn't watch a non-Prime show, or at least a good chunk of them.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:01 PM   #1235
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

VST wrote: View Post
Oh I completely understand that, but from a financial standpoint they're presumably going to want to drag in as many of the new punters from the movies to watch the TV show, and the Prime would I'm sure confuse them a fair bit...
I agree with T'Girl in her stating that the non-fans wouldn't care (or notice) the references and it's not like they would mind.

For instance, in Iron Man, Stark explains to Pepper that what she needs to do is similar to the game Operation. She didn't get the reference and people in the audience who didn't know what Operation was didn't storm out in confusion, they just moved on with those in the audience who did get the reference smiled.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:13 PM   #1236
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

D'you not think then that, say, someone who has only seen the Abrams Trek films, if then given a Prime show following on from the TNG-era, would not find the 100+ year jump jarring?

I'm genuinely curious because, don't get me wrong, I'd welcome another Prime show. I just think they would notice, say, Vulcan suddenly existing again or something quite huge. Then again, I guess anyone who jumps into a new series would probably be enough of a Trek fan to go back & watch all the Prime stuff anyway so... maybe it's a circular discussion

Maybe I just don't trust the Powers That Be to credit the general population with enough intelligence that they could cope with two timelines.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:19 PM   #1237
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^The mistrust is understandable, people can be... slow at times.

Also, a better reference to use was Kirk's reference of Mudd in Into Darkness. Fans unaware of the character couldn't care less.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:40 PM   #1238
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Did he?? Blimey I missed that one! I'll now be looking for that.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:56 PM   #1239
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

VST wrote: View Post
Did he?? Blimey I missed that one! I'll now be looking for that.
The ship they flew to Kronos was recovered during the "Mudd Incident". Which is a reference to the Countdown to Darkness comic prequel, because, for some reason, Mudd is a Bajoran woman in that comic.

I'm thinking the people working on the comics didn't know who Harry Mudd was.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:59 PM   #1240
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Well I never... guess then if I can miss those details as a fan, there's nothing to worry about!

Harry Mudd as a Bajoran woman is bloody odd though! I will get to those comics eventually but that's a timeline tweak too far, surely?!
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Old July 28 2014, 08:35 PM   #1241
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I'm pretty sure that was Harry Mudd's daughter and not a female version of Harry Mudd. I've no idea why she was shown to be Bajoran though.
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Old July 28 2014, 08:53 PM   #1242
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

T'Girl wrote: View Post

But to those harcore fans which universe the series is set in will be important. The network will likely want them, and this matter is important enough that some fans won't watch consistantly a alternate universe show, won't talk it up on social media, won't buy the mechandise.
I think you're overestimating the degree to which "hardcore" fans would reject a new Trek series if it wasn't set in the same continuity as the earlier shows. Sure, some fraction of "the base" might prefer that, but I seriously doubt that it's a deal-breaker where most of us are concerned.

And Lord knows we never talk about the nuTrek movies or comic books or merchandise on social media . . .
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Old July 28 2014, 09:16 PM   #1243
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
VST wrote: View Post
Did he?? Blimey I missed that one! I'll now be looking for that.
The ship they flew to Kronos was recovered during the "Mudd Incident". Which is a reference to the Countdown to Darkness comic prequel, because, for some reason, Mudd is a Bajoran woman in that comic.

I'm thinking the people working on the comics didn't know who Harry Mudd was.
Likely Harry never met Stella in this universe, the market being a lot different in this universe giving him more oppertunities or pushing him to new areas of space he didn't in the Prime Timeline.

Harriet Mudd is likely a daughter born to him and a Bajoran woman he met on his travels and taken up the family business. Harry may well be out there too somewhere.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:47 AM   #1244
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

The shift to theatrical film in the 2010s (or thereabouts) is, in those terms, another change in venue. On that basis alone, change is to be expected. TOS-proper underwent changes, simply as a result of making the transition to film back in 1979.
Change in medium has nothing to do with the change in tone. That's an artistic decision. There is every genre in every medium. We may perceive things from different mediums in different ways, but a tonal change and artistic direction is a conscious decision by the creators.
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Old July 29 2014, 07:16 AM   #1245
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

wulfio wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

The shift to theatrical film in the 2010s (or thereabouts) is, in those terms, another change in venue. On that basis alone, change is to be expected. TOS-proper underwent changes, simply as a result of making the transition to film back in 1979.
Change in medium has nothing to do with the change in tone. That's an artistic decision. There is every genre in every medium. We may perceive things from different mediums in different ways, but a tonal change and artistic direction is a conscious decision by the creators.
It would have been literally impossible to fund, film, and nationally (not to mention globally) distribute a theatrical film in 1979 that was in every tonal and production aspect a carbon copy of the television series that had folded in 1970.

What I said was that change was to be expected, and in fact for the particular change in venue it was required. It would have been impossible to choose not to have some measure of change in TMP in comparison with TOS. The only choices were in what the changes were going to be.

By the same token, it was literally impossible to fund, film, and nationally (not to mention globally) distribute a theatrical film in 2009 that was in every tonal and production aspect a carbon copy of TUC (1991), the last theatrical film to feature all of the TOS cast. Not only was some change to be expected, but in fact same change was literally required. The only choices were in what the changes were going to be.
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