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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 201 56.46%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 58 16.29%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 10.96%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 52 14.61%
I don't know. 6 1.69%
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 20 2014, 01:56 AM   #1216
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

As I've often said, there's a new universe in every other episode of TOS.
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Old July 20 2014, 03:06 AM   #1217
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Maple Dog wrote: View Post
Simple in my opinion,Star Trek Voyager and Enterprise presented us with the Starfleet temporal police,which main job is to correct any temporal incursion,so where were they in the story when ST2009 was made,they should have stopped Nero before he attacked the USS Kelvin,JJ Abrams can't say he was not aware of that in Star Trek.
Where were they when Janeway decided to rewrite sixteen years of history in "Endgame"?
They stopped the shit off screen. Destiny trilogy would give them even more motivation to do so. Timetravelling Janeway is directly responsible for the death of BILLIONS.

I personally am glad that the novels are not canon.

The novels are "canon" for me, at least until proven otherwise. The Trek universe is a much more interesting place with the novels expanding on the movies and tv serieses imo.
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Old July 20 2014, 04:02 AM   #1218
T'Girl
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

borgboy wrote: View Post
The novels are "canon" for me, at least until proven otherwise.
What is "canon" is a matter for CBS televison. While the novels are licensed, they are not on the list of things that CBS has declared as "canon."

The line of Trek bobble heads across from me are also licensed, but just like the novels they are not canon.

Hope that helps.

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Old July 20 2014, 05:40 AM   #1219
AirCommodore
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
The novels are "canon" for me, at least until proven otherwise.
What is "canon" is a matter for CBS televison. While the novels are licensed, they are not on the list of things that CBS has declared as "canon."

The line of Trek bobble heads across from me are also licensed, but just like the novels they are not canon.

Hope that helps.

My Spock bobble-head is definitely canon! He's cool beans!
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Old July 20 2014, 08:06 AM   #1220
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I still don't believe there even is a "prime" Trek...
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.

Last edited by bbjeg; July 20 2014 at 08:35 AM.
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Old July 20 2014, 10:34 AM   #1221
AirCommodore
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I still don't believe there even is a "prime" Trek...
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.
There could many, many alternate timelines and universes as was seen in TNG's "Parallels". We can say that all of those endless variant possible histories are equally valid and "real". We can further speculate that the "Prime" Spock seen in ST '09 may not actually be from the timeline of TOS through VOY that we are used to, but rather one of many possible versions of the 24th Century. In this case, one where Romulus is destroyed and he travels back to the 23rd Century. Not being a knowledgeable scholar of temporal physics, JJ Abrams would have no way of knowing which "future" Spock it was that arrives back in the 2200's.

Last edited by AirCommodore; July 20 2014 at 10:58 AM.
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Old July 20 2014, 11:43 AM   #1222
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

It undermines the entire point of Nimoy's cameo unless he's the guy we've been watching since "The Cage". Trek is a bunch of stories written by storytellers, it's not a manual on temporal physics and never has been.
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Old July 20 2014, 01:15 PM   #1223
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I still don't believe there even is a "prime" Trek...
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.
In the post of his that you quoted from, Hober Mallow was making the point that all spin-offs are derivative of TOS, from TNG to STID. He said "prime" Trek not prime universe.
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Old July 20 2014, 04:52 PM   #1224
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I don't mind the novels, I don't mind "Prime Trek", and I don't mind "JJTrek".

What irks me, though, is the incessant belief among some that if there's a setting in which the past contains a Picard-fronted Enterprise, a space station near a wormhole, a war with the Dominion, and a starship called Voyager stuck in the delta quadrant, that somehow this turns writers into chimpanzees who don't know how to write.

"We just can't write good stories because "Turnabout Intruder" was written 50 years ago." or "I just can't come up with a good storyline because of this stupid Borg business that some writer wrote 20 years ago."

Berman-Trek is not a setting.
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Old July 20 2014, 06:55 PM   #1225
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

FKnight wrote: View Post
I don't mind the novels, I don't mind "Prime Trek", and I don't mind "JJTrek".

What irks me, though, is the incessant belief among some that if there's a setting in which the past contains a Picard-fronted Enterprise, a space station near a wormhole, a war with the Dominion, and a starship called Voyager stuck in the delta quadrant, that somehow this turns writers into chimpanzees who don't know how to write.

"We just can't write good stories because "Turnabout Intruder" was written 50 years ago." or "I just can't come up with a good storyline because of this stupid Borg business that some writer wrote 20 years ago."

Berman-Trek is not a setting.
Actually its more wanting to use character X but can't becuase episode Y or movie Z removed them from play.
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Old July 20 2014, 07:20 PM   #1226
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I still don't believe there even is a "prime" Trek...
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.
In the post of his that you quoted from, Hober Mallow was making the point that all spin-offs are derivative of TOS, from TNG to STID. He said "prime" Trek not prime universe.
It's an unwontedly nit-picky point the reasons for which I still don't understand. It is not controversial that Berman-era Trek was meant to be part of the same universe as TOS Trek, their being spin-offs has nothing to do with that and they're pretty clearly not "reboot" or "alternate universe" material in the way that NuTrek is. That's exactly why the "Prime" notation for "Spock Prime" makes sense on an automatic, intuitive level. You can force them into some kind of similar frame on a technicality, but what for? Seems to me that it's a counterintuitive and futile exercise.
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Old July 20 2014, 07:56 PM   #1227
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It undermines the entire point of Nimoy's cameo unless he's the guy we've been watching since "The Cage". Trek is a bunch of stories written by storytellers, it's not a manual on temporal physics and never has been.
Not at all! There are no doubt millions of parallel universes with a Spock. The movie end-credits are not in-universe, and don't mean anything. Nothing in ST09 and STID proves that this FutureSpock is actually the one from the TOS to TNG timeline. All that is established is that this is an elderly Spock from one possible future who travels back to one possible past. What JJ puts in the credits or says in interviews has no bearing on the in-universe events.
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Old July 20 2014, 08:05 PM   #1228
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

AirCommodore wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It undermines the entire point of Nimoy's cameo unless he's the guy we've been watching since "The Cage". Trek is a bunch of stories written by storytellers, it's not a manual on temporal physics and never has been.
Not at all! There are no doubt millions of parallel universes with a Spock. The movie end-credits are not in-universe, and don't mean anything. Nothing in ST09 and STID proves that this FutureSpock is actually the one from the TOS to TNG timeline. All that is established is that this is an elderly Spock from one possible future who travels back to one possible past. What JJ puts in the credits or says in interviews has no bearing on the in-universe events.
It just seems pointless to use an existing character if he's not from the established universe he's already acquainted with.
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Old July 20 2014, 08:07 PM   #1229
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

AirCommodore wrote: View Post
Not at all! There are no doubt millions of parallel universes with a Spock. The movie end-credits are not in-universe, and don't mean anything. Nothing in ST09 and STID proves that this FutureSpock is actually the one from the TOS to TNG timeline.
Why would it have to "prove" this? Or disprove some bizarre fanwank about him being an alternate Spock? King Daniel is right, here, there's no reason to contort ourselves to avoid seeing him as exactly what he's largely presented as being, the Spock character we're familiar with.
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Old July 20 2014, 08:24 PM   #1230
AirCommodore
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
AirCommodore wrote: View Post
Not at all! There are no doubt millions of parallel universes with a Spock. The movie end-credits are not in-universe, and don't mean anything. Nothing in ST09 and STID proves that this FutureSpock is actually the one from the TOS to TNG timeline.
Why would it have to "prove" this? Or disprove some bizarre fanwank about him being an alternate Spock? King Daniel is right, here, there's no reason to contort ourselves to avoid seeing him as exactly what he's largely presented as being, the Spock character we're familiar with.
It doesn't have to "prove" anything. They can be entertaining stories no matter which universe this FutureSpock is from. There is no "fanwank" involved. "Parallels" establishes that there are millions of variant, but highly similar universes. Nothing in ST09 tells us which of these Universes Nero and FutureSpock are from. No contortions, no wanking. It just isn't established.
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