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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 209 56.79%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 61 16.58%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 10.60%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 53 14.40%
I don't know. 6 1.63%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 25 2013, 07:36 AM   #481
R. Star
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I never got the huge love for the Cage at all... it seemed average at best compared to the rest of TOS, though maybe it's interesting to some to wonder how things might've been.
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Old October 25 2013, 07:58 AM   #482
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I think The Cage is improved by being a part of The Menagerie.

As to the OP question, do I want the prime timeline back? No, it was beaten to death, sometime during the run of DS9, VOY, ENT, GEN, FC, INS, and NEM. Really, the prime timeline was showing signs of emotional distress during the latter seasons of TNG, but there were acute warning signs as early as the first season of TNG, as well as in TFF. I will always love the prime timeline, but I think it's best that she rest in peace. Else, brains.
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Old October 25 2013, 08:36 AM   #483
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

teacock wrote: View Post
I always thought The Cage gets called "cerebral" because the aliens heads were so big.
Sounds about right.

Agreed with GoRe Star, I think a lot of the fondness for "The Cage" really just comes of its being the pilot ep... I've never really been that into it.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:04 AM   #484
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

It's my favourite TOS-era episode, actually.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:31 AM   #485
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I wouldn't mind the Prime Timeline coming back on Television - provided that the show be given the Battlestar Galactica reboot treatment. I would love to see a Girl J. T. Kirk and girl Spock and all that ... set in the universe we otherwise know and love. Having said that, I think J.J. Abrams was the right man for the right job, as far as the movies are concerned. Nicely done ...
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Old October 25 2013, 12:26 PM   #486
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

The original timeline has been done. Time for a change. (D'you see what I did there?)
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Old October 25 2013, 10:50 PM   #487
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I don't believe a "prime" timeline even exists. I take "prime timeline" to mean "timeline created for the Rick Berman-produced Star Trek spinoffs," which were derivative works created by (mostly) other people based on Star Trek, but no more "prime" than any other work derived from the original Star Trek.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:57 PM   #488
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

There is quite a difference between the Berman-era Trek universe and the TOS one. In TOS, Kirk met androids and shapeshifters, journeyed to the edge and the centre of the galaxy and kicked a ton of ass along the way. Then, in BermanTrek, the only android known is Data (+family) and the only shapeshifters are the Changelings (because apparently "The Dauphin" and "Aquiel" didn't really happen, or someone would have told Odo that he's not alone in "The Emissary")

It's confusing, and I think fair to say that there's nothing they can do to please everybody.
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Old October 27 2013, 10:28 PM   #489
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
There is quite a difference between the Berman-era Trek universe and the TOS one. In TOS, Kirk met androids and shapeshifters, journeyed to the edge and the centre of the galaxy and kicked a ton of ass along the way. Then, in BermanTrek, the only android known is Data (+family) and the only shapeshifters are the Changelings (because apparently "The Dauphin" and "Aquiel" didn't really happen, or someone would have told Odo that he's not alone in "The Emissary")

It's confusing, and I think fair to say that there's nothing they can do to please everybody.
Neither of those episodes seem to provide a likely candidate for being 'like Odo'. Species that are able to (usually in limited ways) change form are old hat in Star Trek, but that doesn't make any of them 'Changelings' in the same way that Odo is. The only serious possibility I can think of is Marta from TUC, whose actual form was never shown. So, even assuming anyone knew specifically about any particular incident, why would they tell Odo about creatures that probably had nothing to do with him or his people anyway?
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Old October 28 2013, 01:13 AM   #490
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

If you were a reptilian race and had seen a handful of mammal species over the years and you found a new mammal species that had never been seen before wouldn't you, when talking about his uniqueness to him, reference the other mammals you knew of who shared similar qualities?
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Old October 28 2013, 01:40 AM   #491
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

teacock wrote: View Post
If you were a reptilian race and had seen a handful of mammal species over the years and you found a new mammal species that had never been seen before wouldn't you, when talking about his uniqueness to him, reference the other mammals you knew of who shared similar qualities?
Absolutely.

Continuity porn is of course one of the creeping problems that TNG+ Trek suffered from, but at the same time, blatantly ignoring old continuity was also a problem. Episodes such as TNG: Home Soil could have been resolved so much easier, if only the characters had watched TOS: The Devil in the Dark. This dilemma, of whether to ignore or to bow to old continuity, put all the later series in a lose/lose position.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:09 AM   #492
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
It's probably 75% pulp. Roddenberry's idea of what constitutes SF seems to come more from the pulps than the more "sophisticated" branches of the genre.
Could be. A few of Roddenberry's ideas were great, many were goofy, many were truly awful, I'd question how many of them were that indebted to pulp.

Or at least to strictly sci-fi pulp. Mixtures of different grades and types of pulp are also definitely in there; he was open about wanting to basically do Gunsmoke and/or Naked City and/or Wagon Train in an SF setting, all of which arguably had their own particular admixtures of different brands of pulp. Indeed even when he was doing call-outs to the "classics" or to Shakespeare... when you really think about it, Shakespeare was the pulp of his day, it was only the craftsmanship of his poetry that ultimately elevated him above his peers. So you could maybe say that Trek was 75% mongrel pulp.
Remember that at the time when Gene Roddenberry et. al were creating Star Trek, the written science fiction genre was undergoing a change. The '60s was a time when there was a trend toward publishing whole novels or anthologies in paperback form, instead of in the pulp magazines. However, it wasn't yet so prevalent that Roddenberry would have been that familiar with anything but the pulp magazines (and of course SF wasn't the only genre that had its own magazines - crime and western stories had theirs too).

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I wouldn't mind the Prime Timeline coming back on Television - provided that the show be given the Battlestar Galactica reboot treatment. I would love to see a Girl J. T. Kirk and girl Spock and all that ... set in the universe we otherwise know and love. Having said that, I think J.J. Abrams was the right man for the right job, as far as the movies are concerned. Nicely done ...
This is most of the reason I can't stand nuBSG. The pointless sex changes for some of the characters made it seem as though all the producers wanted was the character names as a hook to get the original BSG fans to tune in, and otherwise they'd make up any damn thing whether it had to do with the original characters or not.

If they did that to Star Trek... well, it would pretty much be like the fanfic that already explored this concept over 30 years ago.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:30 AM   #493
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
This is most of the reason I can't stand nuBSG. The pointless sex changes for some of the characters made it seem as though all the producers wanted was the character names as a hook to get the original BSG fans to tune in, and otherwise they'd make up any damn thing whether it had to do with the original characters or not.
Well, nuBSG was a straight-up no-bones-about-it reboot. They weren't trying to set it in the original continuity or sell themselves as an alternate universe thereof. So they were actually quite free to make up any damn thing whether it had to do with the original characters or not.

It can admittedly seem cheap to just plaster the old names on completely different characters, but I wouldn't accuse nuBSG of doing so or of gender-switching purely for its own sake. Most of the decisions they made added considerable dramatic depth to the characters and interesting complications and tensions to relationships that were straightforward and really quite bland in the original product; gender-switched Starbuck was (albeit a bit too heavy on the angst at times) a million times more dramatically interesting than the original article. Gender-switching purely as a form of cheesy fanwank would be awful, of course, but it can be done in more interesting ways, and for my money nuBSG is one of the best examples of that.
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Last edited by BigSnake; October 28 2013 at 03:40 AM.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:35 AM   #494
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

A couple of things.
1. The fact that oldBSG fans stomped off in a huff didn't hurt either the ratings or critical reception of nuBSG in the slightest.

2. Changing the gender of characters such as Starbuck and Boomer didn't hurt nuBSG in the slightest.
  • In the case of Boomer, a new character (actually, many new characters) were created to occupy the spot of an original character, who basically had no character at all.
  • In the case of Starbuck, making her female gave added dimension to her relationship with all of the Adamas, from Zak, to Bill, to Lee.
Getting back oldTrek vs. nuTrek, Uhura's character has only benefited from having greater dimension and definition. The Prime Universe was played out and stale. At least nuTrek is trying new things, and a careful analysis shows that they generally aren't really random new things at all. And, similarly to the situation with oldBSG, the fact that certain fans of oldTrek aren't satisfied isn't really hurting nuTrek, either at the box office or in the overall critical reception.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:39 AM   #495
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
In the case of Boomer, a new character (actually, many new characters) were created to occupy the spot of an original character, who basically had no character at all.
Also this, yes.
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