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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 186 56.02%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 17.17%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 11.45%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 45 13.55%
I don't know. 6 1.81%
Voters: 332. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 3 2013, 07:30 AM   #241
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
I respectfully disagree. "Junk Cinema" describes something specific: cinema that prioritizes spectacle over other considerations and expects the viewer to come along for the ride while excusing other inadequacies. I think it's actually a pretty relevant descriptor of plenty of cinema today, and -- although I do think there is such a thing as bad and good Junk Cinema -- it is not something I am using to describe Unmitigated Cinematic Eeeevil.
That sounds like a perfect description of The Motion Picture to me, which is often cited here (although not by me) as a "intelligent" Trek movie
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Old October 3 2013, 07:33 AM   #242
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
That sounds like a perfect description of The Motion Picture to me, which is often cited here (although not by me) as a "intelligent" Trek movie
I would agree.
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Old October 3 2013, 10:24 AM   #243
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Why, because they use a long visual effects sequence to convey Kirk's love and amazement with the Enterprise, and a long visual effects sequence to convey the vastness of space and the sheer size of V'Ger compared against the tiny Enterprise? The spectacle you see on screen is the very same spectacle the characters in the film see and feel as well. It's a direct way to make the audience feel what the characters feel.

The VFX in TMP have a lot more purpose than just being eye candy.
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Old October 3 2013, 03:29 PM   #244
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

It was a direct way to make me feel bored and wander into the kitchen for a snack.
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Old October 3 2013, 03:33 PM   #245
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

The visuals and effects in TMP aren't trying to pound your senses into submission as has become the more recent style. It could be argued that they're still compensating for a certain... spareness of plot. (Not for my money that TMP is as incoherent as either of Abrams' efforts, more that it felt like butter spread over too much bread.)
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Old October 3 2013, 05:29 PM   #246
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
I'll need more than that.
With greatest respect, I'll need a good reason for you to need more.

You being awed or not awed isn't the point.
Good. Then you should be quite content to let Greg's insights and arguments stand on their own merit. If he doesn't feel the need to brandish his credentials at me, IMO there is no reason you should.
Absolutely fair enough. I'm certainly not inclined to pull rank here. Heck, I only get cranky when people question my fan cred. (As in "the true fans know this isn't real Trek"--or variants thereof.)

I was a lifelong Trekkie long before I went pro . . . .
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Old October 3 2013, 06:31 PM   #247
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
The visuals and effects in TMP aren't trying to pound your senses into submission as has become the more recent style. It could be argued that they're still compensating for a certain... spareness of plot. (Not for my money that TMP is as incoherent as either of Abrams' efforts, more that it felt like butter spread over too much bread.)
I dunno, I think the use of graphics to compensate for plot these days are more like too much butter, not enough bread. Flashy, but lacking substance.

TMP went overboard with graphics too, but in a different way. There was substance to be had, it's just the minute long shots of the Enterprise flying around just got... dull, especially on top of a plot that had difficulty keeping your attention anyways. I swear I fell asleep watching that movie more than any other Trek film.

ID may be a silly story, with little substance to it, but at least it kept your attention the whole time, even if you're cringing a few times during it.
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Old October 3 2013, 06:44 PM   #248
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

It's probably worth remembering that TMP was filmed only a year or two after Close Encounters of the Third Kind was a monster hit. Studio executives probably thought that extended SFX light shows were what the public wanted.

TMP was also trying very hard to be 2001: The Space Odyssey, which also featured long wordless SFX sequences.
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Old October 3 2013, 07:39 PM   #249
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

TMP felt a lot like 2001 to me. Plus, I think this being the first outing for Star Trek with a major budget on a big screen, they were really milking the visuals since fans were getting this gigantic more realistic version of Trek for the first time. I think if I saw it in the theater back then, I would have been totally in love and blown away. But my experience watching it the first time was on VHS, and I watched the films out of order. I loved it the first time, but re-watching that one is difficult for me to do in one sitting. I'm jealous of all of the fans who had the opportunity to see it for the first time in the theater!

@Greg - since your credentials have been brought up and we're (sort of) on the subject of the films, it's also SO COOL that you're featured in an extra on one the movie DVDs! When I first started frequenting this board I asked myself...is that the Greg Cox? By the way - did they put that extra featuring you on the blu ray releases as well?
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Old October 3 2013, 08:15 PM   #250
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

dub wrote: View Post

@Greg - since your credentials have been brought up and we're (sort of) on the subject of the films, it's also SO COOL that you're featured in an extra on one the movie DVDs! When I first started frequenting this board I asked myself...is that the Greg Cox? By the way - did they put that extra featuring you on the blu ray releases as well?
Thanks. That interview seems like so long ago now that I'm always surprised to hear that people are still stumbling onto it. True confession: my mouth dried up about halfway through the interview but I didn't have the nerve to ask them to stop filming long enough to let me get something to drink. So take this is as a warning: If you're ever being interviewed on camera, make sure there's water nearby!

I don't have the Blu-Ray myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still among the bonus features for Khan.
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Old October 3 2013, 08:40 PM   #251
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

I don't have the Blu-Ray myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still among the bonus features for Khan.
I'm pretty sure they ported over the DVD extra.
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Old October 3 2013, 08:42 PM   #252
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

They certainly did.
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Old October 3 2013, 08:52 PM   #253
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Harvey wrote: View Post
They certainly did.
I couldn't remember for sure.
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Old October 4 2013, 01:56 AM   #254
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Because I asked. (and asked politely )
Well, okay, I'm willing to make allowances for idiosyncracies about the difference between "asked politely" and "peremptorily demanded"... but perhaps you can tell me what's lacking in my response that you require to be filled in?
Didn't realize I was "peremptorily demanding".

I don't feel the ship in the ocean is an example of "bad writing". You claim it is because the ship could hid in space. I feel there has to be something more than that to make it bad.

I was just wondering if you were aware Greg had a professional "relationship" with the character of Kirk.
Then be reassured. I am and have been aware ABOUT GREG, and we can now move on.

[EDIT: Just to be absolutely clear: I've worked for coming up on twenty years in the arts and spent most of those working with professional writers from all ends of the publishing spectrum. I respect and admire anyone who makes a living at writing -- Q knows it isn't easy -- but you are not going to impress me with the "ooooh he's a professional writer" business no matter how many times you repeat it. You should probably stop.]
Again you misunderstand why I brought up Greg. It wasn't to "impress" you. I've tried to make it clear a couple of times. So let me try again. It's not that Greg is a writer, it that he's Star Trek writer. We were discussing the character of James Kirk. And by character I mean his quirks, idiosyncrasies, habits and characteristics. I think as professional who has written Kirk numerous times, Greg's opinion on what makes Kirk tick and what he would do or say hold a little more weight than your's, mine or that Faraci guy.

You used a similar phrase in a couple of posts. Pretty sure it included a word derived from intellect and a synonym for movie.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong; at any rate I'm not recollecting it. If you can point me to the post in question?

[EDIT: Perhaps you think that I was saying this by claiming that Trek could be "intelligent"? If so, I did say that, but I also explained very clearly what bar "intelligent" was clearing for me. That has nothing to do with it being "Intellectual," which is a whole different category.]
Like I said a word derived from intellect and a synonym for film. Intelligent qualifies.

Rose tinted usually implies viewing something through the haze of nostalgia and making the past seem better. That doesn't really happen when folks try to compare New trek to Old. It's more of blinders off type of comparison.
"Rose-tinted" as I'm using it simply means casting something in a favourable light that it has not earned. I'm not aware of the "haze of nostalgia" sub-definition and it may not surprise you to learn that the "blinders off type of comparison" does not convince me on its face. Although I completely understand that this is what many people think they are engaging in. Again... I've been there.
Well I associate the term with nostalgia. Probably because when thinking about the past people tend to forget the bad stuff in the "Good Ol'Days". That's my understanding of the term, someone who filters out the bad stuff either in the past or the present. Never heard the "not earned" part.
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Old October 4 2013, 02:22 AM   #255
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post

I don't feel the ship in the ocean is an example of "bad writing". You claim it is because the ship could hid in space. I feel there has to be something more than that to make it bad.
Two things about hiding the Enterprise underwater:

1. It provided (for me) one of the coolest visuals in the history of movies. It made me drool in the theater and I didn't give two shits about the reasoning behind it.

2. The reasoning: I am perfectly fine with the explanation that this was being used to show how immature Kirk was.

Whether a person likes what went on is purely personal taste. But I don't think it was bad writing because the scene accomplished what it set out to accomplish. YMMV.
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