RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,600
Posts: 5,424,470
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 480
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old November 19 2013, 07:58 AM   #391
SmoothieX
Vice Admiral
 
SmoothieX's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

SmoothieX is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 08:18 AM   #392
tighr
Commodore
 
tighr's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Its hilarious to hear all the Pats fans complaining about this on the talk radio shows. This game isn't the difference between the Pats making the playoffs or not (probably getting the division and possibly getting the #2 seed bye either way).

Besides, everyone knows the BIGGEST BULLSHIT call involving the Patriots and a game that matters is Tuck Rule, and that went your way. Without it, the Raiders probably have a Super Bowl ring and Brady probably never goes anywhere with his career.
__________________
~Tighr™: Not helping the situation since 1983
tighr is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 01:32 PM   #393
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

why do you even bother chiming in on Patriots stuff? Just say you hate the Patriots, mumble about the tuck rule, and move on. We get it, stop trolling and drop it. Tuck Rule was garbage, but it was 12 years ago, and called correctly per the rules (as dumb as they were). And it wasn't made up out of nowhere, Pats actually had a Tuck Rule call made against them during the regular season that year, so they didn't dust off some random thing to keep the game alive. It also wasn't a game-ender, that play after TIED the game. Oakland still shit themselves after, allowed a longer drive, a 45 yard FG in a blizzard, Oakland decided to play for OT rather than make a last push, then allowed ANOTHER big NE drive in the aforementioned blizzard for ANOTHER FG to lose. Wasn't a final play with the ref deciding the outcome, they had another couple drives to score anything or stop the Pats. Oakland wasn't that great anyway, and would have had to still beat the Steelers and the Rams (greatest show on turf and all that), HUGE leap to 'probably win a ring". Especially since you blew a game to the lowly Patriots up 13-3 with only a couple minutes left in the 4th quarter. Get over it.

That said, seems pretty blatant. If you don't like the call for pass interference, defensive holding or even illegal contact works (it's well after 5 yards). Giving a bearhug and pushing the receiver out of the play and away from the ball (oddly, making it then uncatchable because he's too far away?) doesn't seem quite in line with the rules. Got jobbed there, and kinda sick of New England games (football and baseball) ending on crappy/controversial plays lately.

And yeah, obviously making the playoffs, doesn't make this a less crappy call. And if it's the difference between #1 and #2 seed, or worse, #2 and #3, even crappier.

Tighr, does it make it a more acceptable call just because the Pats didn't need the game as bad? It's either a penalty or not.
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 02:12 PM   #394
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
I'm blaming the loss to the Steelers on the Lions being blinded and disoriented by those throwback uniforms.
They actually use the stripes like a zebra to hide their numbers.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 03:10 PM   #395
Neroon
Mod of balance
 
Neroon's Avatar
 
Location: On my ship the Rocinante
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Come on Neroon, does this really look like it's his momentum carrying him away from the play? While I think there would be very little chance of that ball being completed if it was played cleanly (just based on the way he was covered), you can't just take the receiver out of the play like that. At a bare minimum, it should have been defensive holding. As much as I enjoy watching the Patriots lose, they should have gotten one last play.
I'm no Pats fan but I'm also no fan of Cam Newton, so I don't have a dog in this fight. With the number of officials and commentators saying it was the correct call - even Jimmy Johnson said he thought it was right though he could have gone the other way, there has to be merit in the way the officials ruled. It's never going to be 100% either direction. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. There is enough evidence to support the reversal that I have to go with the officials.
__________________
"Those who promote peace have joy."
- Proverbs 12:20
Neroon is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 03:43 PM   #396
SmoothieX
Vice Admiral
 
SmoothieX's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Scout summed up my thoughts pretty well.

It comes down to a judgment call whether it was catchable or not, and the refs said it wasn't. Here's my question...if the defender wasn't on Gronk like a cheap suit, might it have been catchable?

Tighr, does it make it a more acceptable call just because the Pats didn't need the game as bad? It's either a penalty or not.
I don't buy that argument either.
SmoothieX is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 04:02 PM   #397
archeryguy1701
Rear Admiral
 
archeryguy1701's Avatar
 
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Send a message via Yahoo to archeryguy1701
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Even if it's deemed not catchable, that still leaves you with defensive holding or illegal contact, which (if I understand correctly) don't require the ball to be catchable to still be a penalty.
__________________
"If it weren't for stupid, difficult races, there'd simply be no point to living."

Sometimes you just gotta roll the hard six- Bill Adama
archeryguy1701 is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 04:30 PM   #398
Tom Servo
Commodore
 
Tom Servo's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

tighr wrote: View Post
Its hilarious to hear all the Pats fans complaining about this on the talk radio shows. This game isn't the difference between the Pats making the playoffs or not (probably getting the division and possibly getting the #2 seed bye either way).

Besides, everyone knows the BIGGEST BULLSHIT call involving the Patriots and a game that matters is Tuck Rule, and that went your way. Without it, the Raiders probably have a Super Bowl ring and Brady probably never goes anywhere with his career.
Oh wahhh. It was a decade ago. It probably doesn't help that the Raiders lost in the SB the next year, and have sucked for the last decade after that.

Granted, I'm glad you think that one of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL would have had his career destroyed because of that one call. A stupid rule yes, but it was a rule, and the official enforced it.

Thats not what happened last night.
__________________
"I like this ship! It's exciting!"-Scotty "Star Trek"

Member of Red Sox Nation
Tom Servo is offline  
Old November 19 2013, 07:54 PM   #399
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Even if it's deemed not catchable, that still leaves you with defensive holding or illegal contact, which (if I understand correctly) don't require the ball to be catchable to still be a penalty.
I'm not sure that's right. I've never seen a ball that was uncatchable that was originally pass interference get amended to some other penalty. Instead, they pick the flag back up.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 07:18 AM   #400
Caligula
Vice Admiral
 
Caligula's Avatar
 
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Here's my question...if the defender wasn't on Gronk like a cheap suit, might it have been catchable?
It looks as though it would have been catchable, yes. It's also conceivable that it would still have been intercepted, but that's a lot less likely without Luke Kuechly wrapping both arms around Gronkowski. I'll take it. I feel dirty doing so, but I'll take it.
Caligula is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 01:19 PM   #401
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Even if it's deemed not catchable, that still leaves you with defensive holding or illegal contact, which (if I understand correctly) don't require the ball to be catchable to still be a penalty.
I'm not sure that's right. I've never seen a ball that was uncatchable that was originally pass interference get amended to some other penalty. Instead, they pick the flag back up.
Usually because it's a boundary thing, where the ball sailed way out of bounds. Or they decide their feet just got tangled up, or hand fighting on both sides, or whatever. This was in bounds, bear hug and carry the guy out of the play. Ball was a little short, but hard to say where Gronk would have ended up had he not been taken out of it. If it's not PI, still at least holding or illegal contact.

We don't know which call the flag was for originally, they just said they picked it up. No call to overturn. Tough to believe they decided on 'no penalty' though, out of the obvious options. Doesn't have to be catchable for holding or illegal contact; you can draw those penalties without the ball even being thrown in your direction. Edelman got an illegal contact call earlier in the game from the left side of the field when Brady threw to someone on the right. DB just held him and then knocked him down, still a penalty.
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 01:33 PM   #402
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Even if it's deemed not catchable, that still leaves you with defensive holding or illegal contact, which (if I understand correctly) don't require the ball to be catchable to still be a penalty.
I'm not sure that's right. I've never seen a ball that was uncatchable that was originally pass interference get amended to some other penalty. Instead, they pick the flag back up.
Usually because it's a boundary thing, where the ball sailed way out of bounds. Or they decide their feet just got tangled up, or hand fighting on both sides, or whatever. This was in bounds, bear hug and carry the guy out of the play. Ball was a little short, but hard to say where Gronk would have ended up had he not been taken out of it. If it's not PI, still at least holding or illegal contact.

We don't know which call the flag was for originally, they just said they picked it up. No call to overturn. Tough to believe they decided on 'no penalty' though, out of the obvious options. Doesn't have to be catchable for holding or illegal contact; you can draw those penalties without the ball even being thrown in your direction. Edelman got an illegal contact call earlier in the game from the left side of the field when Brady threw to someone on the right. DB just held him and then knocked him down, still a penalty.
Bingo. Those defending the ruling might be able to tapdance their way into convincing me it wasn't PI but there is no way in hell it isn't defensive holding. In fact if someone asked me what defensive holding was I would probably show them a GIF of this play. The Patriots got jobbed and the referee behavior after the game was bizarre and a little cowardly to be honest. I'd even bet that if Luke Kuechly were to be honest, he would tell you that he knew he got beat and conceded the penalty over the game losing catch.
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 01:37 PM   #403
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

I'll just leave this here

__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 02:15 PM   #404
1001001
Putting the F-U Back in FUN!
 
1001001's Avatar
 
Location: People's Gaypublic of Drugafornia
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post


__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.” - Isaac Asimov
1001001 is offline  
Old November 20 2013, 05:48 PM   #405
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

Yep, obviously a missed call there. Was there a flag (admitting they saw something) that was then picked up, or did the refs just completely miss it? Missing it is a little easier to understand than saying you saw it, video backing that up, and then just putting the flag in your pocket.

Hell, if you want to play that game, could probably play with screencaps all day. Watch the video of Eli right before the Helmet Catch in the superbowl. About 8 kinds of holding there, but the refs let it go. After that, during the hail mary to Moss, Moss had his arms basically tied to his sides, but nothing there either. It happens.

But if you say you saw it and throw a flag, hard to justify saying you didn't see anything after...
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.