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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 3 2013, 10:13 PM   #46
Leto_II
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

jpv2000 wrote: View Post
NightJim wrote: View Post
In the Excelsior books that's exactly what happens. War Dragons states outright that Chekov was Sulu's original choice for 1st officer but the Khan incident played on his conscience too much, so he went back to Kirk, and post Khitomer, but after Kirk died (as far as their concerned), Chekov finally steps up as 1st officer for Sulu.
That's great. I've got to grab those. I was thrilled when Sulu finally made Captain and got the ship of his dreams. I'd love to read some of his adventures.
Start at the beginning -- read Excelsior: Forged in Fire, which depicts the very beginning of Sulu's captaincy of that starship (several years prior to the events of Star Trek VI), and then proceed from there:

http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Fire-St...sr_1_1?ie=UTF8
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Old September 3 2013, 10:23 PM   #47
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Maybe Chekov never advanced in rank to captain because there was not enough screen time to make it happen.

Just throwing that out there.
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Old September 3 2013, 11:00 PM   #48
Leto_II
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

To be sure, when you're talking about an ensemble cast of seven characters, played by seven different actors, all of whom are politicking for greater screentime for each of their personas, someone is going to receive short shrift along the way

As far back as the 1960s TV series, Shatner (and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nimoy) both jockeyed to have the majority of stories devoted to advancing their characters, sometimes at the expense of the supporting cast.

One of the big examples of this was the episode "This Side of Paradise," which was originally scripted as a fairly-major Sulu character-story, wherein Sulu would hook up with Jill Ireland's character and play a large role in resolving the storyline. This changed once it was decided to rewrite the teleplay to change the focus to Spock scoring with the girl, ending the threat, etc. And this wasn't the last time this would happen.

When you get to the question of the feature films, which are essentially two hours of story every three or four years (as opposed to 26 episodes a year), things become even more crucial in the storytelling-economy department, to the point where the secondary characters stand even less of a chance of getting any significant onscreen development.

Fortunately, this was overcome at times, such as Chekov's promotion to first officer of the Reliant and Sulu's promotion to the captaincy, but as we saw even as recently as Star Trek Into Darkness, Chekov was once again a casualty of the demands of economy, receiving probably the least amount of screentime out of the entire main cast.
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Old September 4 2013, 04:29 AM   #49
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Leto_II wrote: View Post
To be sure, when you're talking about an ensemble cast of seven characters, played by seven different actors, all of whom are politicking for greater screentime for each of their personas, someone is going to receive short shrift along the way

As far back as the 1960s TV series, Shatner (and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nimoy) both jockeyed to have the majority of stories devoted to advancing their characters, sometimes at the expense of the supporting cast.
But TOS was always about the Big Three. While the supporting cast might have been well liked by fans, they were never expected to be more than people in the background. It was the actors that gave them character.

They went with more of an ensemble cast in TNG and DS9 which I thought worked better.

Too bad they went back to the Big Three concept for VOY (Janeway, Doc, Seven) and ENT (Archer, Tpol, Trip). The supporting casts for VOY and ENT really suffered in terms of development.
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Old September 4 2013, 05:28 AM   #50
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

I think the eels scrambled Chekov's brains enough to where Starfleet was reluctant to give him a ship of his own. Or perhaps Chekov decided after that experience that command wasn't for him.
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Old September 4 2013, 06:11 PM   #51
jpv2000
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Leto_II wrote: View Post
jpv2000 wrote: View Post
NightJim wrote: View Post
In the Excelsior books that's exactly what happens. War Dragons states outright that Chekov was Sulu's original choice for 1st officer but the Khan incident played on his conscience too much, so he went back to Kirk, and post Khitomer, but after Kirk died (as far as their concerned), Chekov finally steps up as 1st officer for Sulu.
That's great. I've got to grab those. I was thrilled when Sulu finally made Captain and got the ship of his dreams. I'd love to read some of his adventures.
Start at the beginning -- read Excelsior: Forged in Fire, which depicts the very beginning of Sulu's captaincy of that starship (several years prior to the events of Star Trek VI), and then proceed from there:

http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Fire-St...sr_1_1?ie=UTF8
Many thanks. Will do that soon.
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Old September 4 2013, 06:15 PM   #52
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Dream wrote: View Post
Leto_II wrote: View Post
To be sure, when you're talking about an ensemble cast of seven characters, played by seven different actors, all of whom are politicking for greater screentime for each of their personas, someone is going to receive short shrift along the way

As far back as the 1960s TV series, Shatner (and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nimoy) both jockeyed to have the majority of stories devoted to advancing their characters, sometimes at the expense of the supporting cast.
But TOS was always about the Big Three. While the supporting cast might have been well liked by fans, they were never expected to be more than people in the background. It was the actors that gave them character.
Indeed. The supporting cast did a great job with the small amount of screen time they had.

Also, Dream, I love that adorable avatar you have.
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Old September 4 2013, 06:25 PM   #53
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Dream wrote: View Post
But TOS was always about the Big Three. While the supporting cast might have been well liked by fans, they were never expected to be more than people in the background. It was the actors that gave them character.
James Doohan always liked to say that Scotty was 99 percent Doohan and 1 percent Accent.
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Old September 4 2013, 06:35 PM   #54
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Chekov was Chief of Security in The Motion Picture. Given that background, I hated to see him written as clueless and useless when there was a murder investigation going on in Trek VI. That was another of my reasons for hoping it would turn out to be Chekov who was the conspirator aboard.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:48 AM   #55
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Trevacious wrote: View Post
Chekov was Chief of Security in The Motion Picture. Given that background, I hated to see him written as clueless and useless when there was a murder investigation going on in Trek VI. That was another of my reasons for hoping it would turn out to be Chekov who was the conspirator aboard.
True. I had all but forgotten that.
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Old September 5 2013, 01:08 AM   #56
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Trevacious wrote: View Post
Chekov was Chief of Security in The Motion Picture. Given that background, I hated to see him written as clueless and useless when there was a murder investigation going on in Trek VI. That was another of my reasons for hoping it would turn out to be Chekov who was the conspirator aboard.
A fair number of people actually expected it after the scene in which he finds the Klingon blood on the transporter pad.

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Old September 5 2013, 05:20 PM   #57
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Two things, maybe touched on by someone else.

One, who says Chekov never made captain?

Two, do all officers in real-world navies make captain?
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Old September 5 2013, 05:35 PM   #58
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Praetor wrote: View Post
One, who says Chekov never made captain?
The novels aren't canon. We're discussing why he never made captain while on screen.

Praetor wrote:
Two, do all officers in real-world navies make captain?
A great question and one that I've also raised. I think a lot of people are mistakenly assuming that if one hangs around long enough that he or she will eventually earn captain's stripes/pips. Not the case. The military is a merit based organization. The idea that someone gets a command of his own because he's managed to stay in the service for thirty years is ridiculous.

And what did Chekov really show during the TOS series or films that warranted his being placed in the captain's chair? Of everyone on Kirk's crew, he was the person who's most remembered for his stupidity and his knack for finding himself in the middle of bad situations (some his fault, some not) that ended with people getting hurt or killed. Is that someone you'd want leading hundreds of other men and women?

Kirk's path to captaincy isn't clear, but he clearly deserved the role. Spock didn't desire command, but he had leadership qualities of his own that made him an asset to his crew (officers and cadets alike). Scotty was captain of engineering, a rank that wasn't intended for command but to note his expertise in his field. Did he deserve it? Absolutely. Sulu's career started much like Chekov's. But he grew into a leader and became more assertive as time passed. By TUC, he clearly belonged in the center seat.

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Old September 5 2013, 05:57 PM   #59
Praetor
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Sran wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
One, who says Chekov never made captain?
The novels aren't canon. We're discussing why he never made captain while on screen.
Even so, presuming a real universe, other stuff must have been happening off-screen. Sulu had a kid for example.

I suppose the most literal answer to your question, in that light, is that it wasn't required for any story. Neither was Sulu's, I'd suppose.

Sran wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote:
Two, do all officers in real-world navies make captain?
A great question and one that I've also raised. I think a lot of people are mistakenly assuming that if one hangs around long enough that he or she will eventually earn captain's stripes/pips. Not the case. The military is a merit based organization. The idea that someone gets a command of his own because he's managed to stay in the service for thirty years is ridiculous.

And what did Chekov really show during the TOS series or films that warranted his being placed in the captain's chair? Of everyone on Kirk's crew, he was the person who's most remembered for his stupidity and his knack for finding himself in the middle of bad situations (some his fault, some not) that ended with people getting hurt or killed. Is that someone you'd want leading hundreds of other men and women?

Kirk's path to captaincy isn't clear, but he clearly deserved the role. Spock didn't desire command, but he had leadership qualities of his own that made him an asset to his crew (officers and cadets alike). Scotty was captain of engineering, a rank that wasn't intended for command but to note his expertise in his field. Did he deserve it? Absolutely. Sulu's career started much like Chekov's. But he grew into a leader and became more assertive as time passed. By TUC, he clearly belonged in the center seat.

--Sran
Agreed for the most part. FWIW, I seem to remember reading somewhere, maybe in TMoST, that Chekov was on a command track, and that was part of why he seemed to be training at everything, at the science station and whatnot. Paraphrasing, I think it explicitly said he was on a path where he might one day gain a command like Kirk.

Of course, that doesn't mean he just didn't cut the mustard.
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Old September 5 2013, 11:26 PM   #60
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Chekov was a smart dunderhead. It's a miracle he made commander. The real question is why Uhura never made captain.

Although think, in fanon, much like McCoy in TNG, she may actually have made admiral in the end.
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