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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old September 5 2013, 06:22 AM   #61
teacake
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Maybe you should join your local freegan group and liberate some steak.

You must live in a shitty area food choice wise. I can usually find some excellent but small cut of steak for 2 dollars if I want it. Something is always on the way out, LOL.
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Old September 5 2013, 06:46 AM   #62
Melakon
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

There used to be a big supermarket I could walk to in the same shopping center as Little Caesars, but they closed that store, so neither of the two closest groceries are within walking distance for me anymore. When they closed, I couldn't even get fresh milk or lunchmeat anywhere closer. That's changed at least, but there's still no fresh fruit anywhere near me. And of course my brand selection and varieties of products are now severely limited, can't find a lot of things I liked and used to buy regularly.

Even with the train, I still have to walk another couple of blocks through parking lots just to get the groceries. And the grocery stores are those everything under one roof type, so there's more walking. I'm usually worn out before I leave the store.
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Old September 5 2013, 06:57 AM   #63
teacake
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Where I live there are numerous small grocery stores, butchers and green grocers who will deliver if you call up and tell them what you want.
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Old September 5 2013, 07:13 AM   #64
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I'm not aware of any near me, and I usually don't know what I want when it comes to meat unless I see it in the display case. I used to buy a lot of hamburger until the store went away.

Ow! The cat tried to sharpen her claws on the seat of the kitchen chair I'm currently sitting in, which is mostly open in the back, and she got my seat instead.
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Old September 5 2013, 11:29 AM   #65
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Well there ya go, don't feed that cat for a week and buy a steak with your savings.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:32 PM   #66
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Nah, I always make sure my pets have food, even if I don't.
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Old September 5 2013, 08:48 PM   #67
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Spock was the only alien we saw, there were likely dozens of others onboard that kept missing the camera. Its the same way we never saw a stellar cartographer in TOS but you assume that a ship of exploration has several.
You can make any assumptions you want in order to justify anything. But the fact (what we actually saw on screen), was that the 1701-Ent had one alien in it's crew. For the NX-01, a ship which was launched some 200 years before the 1701, and a pre-Federation ship, it was perfectly natural for there be only one alien. In fact, if Archer had had his way, there would not have been any. Considering how xenophobic humans were in the 22nd century, this seems logical.
ENT as a Earth-based ship makes sense to have few aliens onboard, but it should have been an early Federation ship instead with lots of aliens on the crew.
Why? Ent was a show about Earth's initial exploration outside of the solar system prior to the formation of the Federation. You may have wanted to see an early Federation ship, but other than that, I see no reason why Ent or the Nx-01 "should" have been about the early Federation.
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Old September 7 2013, 12:24 AM   #68
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Frontier wrote: View Post
I'm not a big Enterprise fan, but I'm also not a hater. Actually re-watching it right now via my DVDs. It's my only good condition DVD set since it's not well worn, but I still own them! So brownie points for that.

The other day though, I did develop a theory as to one perhaps subtle or subconscious reason so many fans turned away from the show?

What if it's all the subtle alterations to Trek lore?

What do I mean? Well, think about it. Shuttle pod instead of shuttle craft. No red alert / tactical alert instead. No photon torpedoes / eventually photonic torpedoes. Enterprise instead of the Enterprise. Phase pistols instead of phasers.

All those subtle little things designed to show the evolution of them, the predecessor to what we knew, intended to show the earlier stage of things... could those minor trivial details have been a key to putting some people off?

To some it could have been a sort of OCD thing. To others, an annoying nit-picky issue. others still totally unaware it was effecting them negatively. Some may even have felt as if B&B where trying to re-create Trek in their own image or something.

I dunno. It's a bit of a trivial/silly theory, and it's certainly well moot at this juncture, but I thought it an interesting proposition.

Hmmmm......

No, no I don't agree, All sins could have been forgiven if the episodes and characters where better written. That's why people don't like that show!
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Old September 7 2013, 08:08 AM   #69
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Well maybe not all sins, but so long as your characters are consistantly written and you have fairly engaging stories. People are willing to overlook some of the minor plot-holes etc.. that many stories have.

If your characters are inconsistant and your stories aren't fully engagin your aduaince all those little plot-holes etc.. start to be picked upon.
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Old September 7 2013, 04:34 PM   #70
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

This. Having different hardware? That's fine. Oh, the phasers are now called phase pistols, and instead of shooting out a beam that will stun or kill, they ... shoot out a beam that will stun or kill.
Would have been much more interesting for the show if they would have just kept the plasma pistols we saw at the first half of Broken Bow(EM-33 I think it was called).
Having weapons that can only either kill or wound would have created more drama for the show,
when you cant just go and stun people at will. Would have required the writers to be more creative, too.

I kind of liked the weapons that the NX-01 had on the pilot better too
..seemed cool but more dated to the standard phasers of TNG.
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Old September 7 2013, 11:40 PM   #71
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Melakon wrote: View Post
I've read elsewhere that people didn't like what appeared to be minor changes in terminology, as you suggest. Phase pistols instead of phasers. Photonic torpedoes instead of photon torpedoes. Etc., etc. The Klingons in the very first episode bothered me. Then the Ferengi showed up, but since we never learned the name of the species, that's okay because it doesn't violate continuity. I think that's what turned a lot people off about the show.
There was also a mention of Ferengi in the Dear Doctor episode, a patient describes them as a warp capable alien race.
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Old September 7 2013, 11:51 PM   #72
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Yes, the Ferengi are mentioned by name there, but apparently Starfleet never puts the name together with short, orange, big-headed aliens until 200 years later. Even T'Pol seems ignorant about them.
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Old September 8 2013, 03:39 AM   #73
dub
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

gblews wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Spock was the only alien we saw, there were likely dozens of others onboard that kept missing the camera. Its the same way we never saw a stellar cartographer in TOS but you assume that a ship of exploration has several.
You can make any assumptions you want in order to justify anything. But the fact (what we actually saw on screen), was that the 1701-Ent had one alien in it's crew. For the NX-01, a ship which was launched some 200 years before the 1701, and a pre-Federation ship, it was perfectly natural for there be only one alien. In fact, if Archer had had his way, there would not have been any. Considering how xenophobic humans were in the 22nd century, this seems logical.
ENT as a Earth-based ship makes sense to have few aliens onboard, but it should have been an early Federation ship instead with lots of aliens on the crew.
Why? Ent was a show about Earth's initial exploration outside of the solar system prior to the formation of the Federation. You may have wanted to see an early Federation ship, but other than that, I see no reason why Ent or the Nx-01 "should" have been about the early Federation.
Yeah, I have to agree with gblews. I really enjoyed seeing humans being wary, nervous, and at times naive when it came to dealing with or meeting other species. And the lack of non-humans heightened that tension for the crew and for the audience (speaking for myself). It also helped make things interesting for Phlox and T'Pol. Of course, it would have been really great if the writers were allowed to keep the crew grounded on earth for the first season.
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Old September 9 2013, 01:25 AM   #74
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
... and Phlox (for some reason? I don't recall them explaining).
I did wonder about Phlox, I know the Enterprise left Earth earlier than scheduled, but who was supposed to be the ship's doctor? They wanted Phlox along to care for the Klingon, but why was the "original" doctor simply dropped from the crew roster? It doesn't seem like the kind of move Archer would have agreed to.

There actually is a lot about the show they got right, I liked the way they expanded on the Vulcans and the Andorians. While I disliked the TCW as many do, the Sulban were interesting and so were the Xindi.

The "photonic" torpedoes really should have been missiles with small nukes.

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Old September 9 2013, 04:20 AM   #75
Morpheus 02
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Frontier wrote: View Post
I'm not a big Enterprise fan, but I'm also not a hater. Actually re-watching it right now via my DVDs. It's my only good condition DVD set since it's not well worn, but I still own them! So brownie points for that.

The other day though, I did develop a theory as to one perhaps subtle or subconscious reason so many fans turned away from the show?

What if it's all the subtle alterations to Trek lore?

What do I mean? Well, think about it. Shuttle pod instead of shuttle craft. No red alert / tactical alert instead. No photon torpedoes / eventually photonic torpedoes. Enterprise instead of the Enterprise. Phase pistols instead of phasers.

All those subtle little things designed to show the evolution of them, the predecessor to what we knew, intended to show the earlier stage of things... could those minor trivial details have been a key to putting some people off?

To some it could have been a sort of OCD thing. To others, an annoying nit-picky issue. others still totally unaware it was effecting them negatively. Some may even have felt as if B&B where trying to re-create Trek in their own image or something.

I dunno. It's a bit of a trivial/silly theory, and it's certainly well moot at this juncture, but I thought it an interesting proposition.

Going back to the original post...my thoughts are similar to others...


It isn't so much the "subtle alterations" as much as how they really were NOT alterations, and did NOT represent something "new " or "original".

A biggie you missed was them dropping "Star Trek" from the title. Non-Trek sci-fi fans wouldn't have fallen for the title change, and those who were Trek fans probably rolled their eyes on HOW MUCH it was like Star Trek -- and as others have said, it could interchange easily with other series.

Some copycat stuff was just dumb -- like "hull plating"...they were basically the shields of the future"..and the Enterprise looked the same as always.

Phase pistols -- I was hoping they would be "phase rifles" with backpack generators like the laser soldier from the 1st Generation of 1980's GI Joe. Only the talk of 2 settings made that weapon feel like appropriately primitive.

The "photonic torpedoes" could have at least been missiles, less effective than photon torpedoes.

Transporters weren't needed -- and again, since they worked in the show pretty much like TNG transporters (only malfunctioning when that week's episode revolved around the "danger").."How original."

I can see how some people hated the Vulcans...I thought they were.. "logical".

The 1/2 developed crew was a big problem....Example: Mayweather's backstory seemed interesting, but he should have been treated as a "veteran:" that would tell/show the Captain how inexperienced he was. Never happened.

While some standouts (like Phlox), not enough for us the like the cast as a whole.

it would have been nice to build the crew alien by alien. Phlox & T'Pol to begin with...but adding Shran would have been nice, and later a Tellarite.

And of course, a Romulan War, or a build up to it, would have been nice. (And no remote control ships or especially ones with a cloaking device!!)

There were other interesting things...the Xindi were a fascinating species, actually original from the monolithic space empire-races out there. But in terms of Star Trek history -- would have fit in much later (an illogical substitute for the Romulans...that inconsistency nailed the coffin on Enterprise, and doomed a potentially epic Manny Coto run.

One other random thought: HUMOR/fun -- or lack thereof. Outside of Phlox...we seemed to get little sense of fun or humor. Big contrast to TOS and DS9.

More originality, yet subtle respect to the past, would have made Enterprise a success...Manny Coto's Season 4 is the model that should've been followed. that season was NOT too little, but certainly too late.

SOme great potential, never realized fully, and too late for that initial audience needed for long term success.
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