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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old August 30 2013, 01:06 AM   #31
Melakon
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Re: Warp 10

Lighthammer wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
I think he had some great work on Voyager too.
to name a few
Scorpion
Year of Hell
The Killing Game
Living Whitness [emphasis added]
Drone
Latent Image
Dark Frontier
Warhead
Life Line
Unimatrix Zero
Human Error
Author Author
I almost feel obligated to point out Living Witness was nominated for an Emmy. That requires huge recognition.
I almost thought that said Living Whiteness.
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Old August 30 2013, 01:16 AM   #32
Guy Gardener
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Re: Warp 10

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Because it was a terrible episode that they didn't think through at all.

After Where No Man Has Gone Before warp was always scaled up toward warp 10 as if it was an unbreakable barrier, and technical manuals released well before Threshold said warp 10 was infinite speed. The problem with the episode is more that it's total garbage than it's use of warp 10 as a hard barrier.
To be fair it's not a barrier more so than something way off in the distance not worth thinking about.

The speed of light is figureouttable. 186,282 miles per second thereabouts, but I don't think warp ten is?

10,000 times faster than warp 9 is still not warp ten.

You just keep going faster and faster until you turn into god.
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Old August 30 2013, 02:25 AM   #33
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Re: Warp 10

As King Daniel will attest, the topic of just what the hell transwarp drive is pops up every so often in the Tech forum. It's remarkable how little sense the depiction in this episode actually holds. As others have noted, the warp scale was recalibrated at the start of TNG so Warp 10 was an unreachable speed. (Apparently the production team was sick of the notion of the ship accelerating out of control as on TOS.)

What's interesting about "Threshold"'s depiction of transwarp is that it does a pretty good job explaining what the technological limitations might be to achieving such high velocity, but alas, lizards and all, it just doesn't hold water.
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Old August 30 2013, 03:27 AM   #34
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Re: Warp 10

It's also rather difficult to ignore the conceit that after warp technicians have been trying to reach warp 10 all over the galaxy for centuries, Paris figures it out on his own in a few weeks.

That would be like if I woke up tomorrow and suddenly cured cancer.

And ALSO rather difficult to ignore the fact that going warp 9.99999 doesn't turn you into lizards but does get you home in a few seconds.
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Old August 30 2013, 04:47 AM   #35
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Re: Warp 10

Which would be what an advanced Warp drive from Course Oblivion is, or a modified warp drive from Equinox is.

At some point, ships are going to be dawdling at Warp 9.9999999 before they really open her up, and they're going o have to recalibrate the arp scale again, so that warp 9.99999999 is now Warp 5.
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Old August 30 2013, 05:07 AM   #36
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Re: Warp 10

I always figured they just got tired of saying point nineninenineninenine, and adjusted the scale to twenty or something and that's where they got Warp 13 in the All Good Things future.
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Old August 30 2013, 05:53 AM   #37
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Re: Warp 10

Part of the reason they actually rescaled things is because of the light speed theory put out by Hawkings back in the early 80s.

It wasn't purely a cosmetic change, it was in part because going back to Star Trek through TNG gave TPTB the opportunity to try explain things more accurately as we understood the light speed threshold barrier theories then. Since then though, our theories have changed a lot (again).

Star Trek has always been really good at trying to introduce pseudo accurate scientific concepts through the series almost as a way of teaching while entertaining. Sure, we can't claim a lot of technobable is super accurate, but at least a lot of it has some basis in reality.
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Old August 30 2013, 06:44 AM   #38
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Re: Warp 10

Lighthammer wrote: View Post
Part of the reason they actually rescaled things is because of the light speed theory put out by Hawkings back in the early 80s.

It wasn't purely a cosmetic change, it was in part because going back to Star Trek through TNG gave TPTB the opportunity to try explain things more accurately as we understood the light speed threshold barrier theories then. Since then though, our theories have changed a lot (again).
I admit curiosity what light speed theories you mean.
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Old August 30 2013, 10:55 AM   #39
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Re: Warp 10

Nebusj wrote: View Post
Lighthammer wrote: View Post
Part of the reason they actually rescaled things is because of the light speed theory put out by Hawkings back in the early 80s.

It wasn't purely a cosmetic change, it was in part because going back to Star Trek through TNG gave TPTB the opportunity to try explain things more accurately as we understood the light speed threshold barrier theories then. Since then though, our theories have changed a lot (again).
I admit curiosity what light speed theories you mean.
There's nothing too mysterious about it; Star Trek was originally pseudo based around Einsteins theories that pushing past the speed of light required all sorts of energy we'd never be able to master (thus part of the reason the actual reactor on the original Enterprise was so huge).

TNG updated its theories to be based more in line with Hawkings theories, though it still took liberties. Hawkings only added to Einstiens theories, but of course, he was one of the major theorist playing around with dark matter the existence of multi-dimesional space.

Michu Kuko talks about both theories in his book, Physics of the Impossible. Its a must read for anyone interest in Trek tech.
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Old August 30 2013, 01:24 PM   #40
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Re: Warp 10

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
It's also rather difficult to ignore the conceit that after warp technicians have been trying to reach warp 10 all over the galaxy for centuries, Paris figures it out on his own in a few weeks.

That would be like if I woke up tomorrow and suddenly cured cancer.

And ALSO rather difficult to ignore the fact that going warp 9.99999 doesn't turn you into lizards but does get you home in a few seconds.
People tend to forget that they discovered a new type of dilithium in this episode. That's what allowed them to reach warp 10.
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Old August 30 2013, 01:42 PM   #41
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Re: Warp 10

It's still odd that the crew of one ship, none of whom are full time research scientists and have limited time and resources, manage to pull off such a major scientific and technological breakthrough.

Honestly tho all this warp 10 stuff falls into the category of stuff only nerds like us care about. What's special about Threshold is that it manages to be awful on several levels, ie newt sex.
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Old August 30 2013, 01:50 PM   #42
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Re: Warp 10

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It's still odd that the crew of one ship, none of whom are full time research scientists and have limited time and resources, manage to pull off such a major scientific and technological breakthrough.
DESTINY. Janeway, fixed point in time.

Why was Kirk there for so much key crucial shit? DESTINY. Not everyone gets to do this.

Honestly tho all this warp 10 stuff falls into the category of stuff only nerds like us care about. What's special about Threshold is that it manages to be awful on several levels, ie newt sex.
The newt sex was awesome. But I understand if not everyone is up to it.
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Old August 30 2013, 03:36 PM   #43
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Re: Warp 10

teacake wrote: View Post
This is all highly experimental.

What if you got back to earth and the inoculation wore off unexpectedly during your big reunion?
Boom, and there's an arc for season 3. Very Xindi-like. A new race in the alpha quadrant: the Newt-toids. I bet Harry Kim's character would be better as a newt anyway. Or hey, maybe they accidentally slingshot around the sun on the way back to earth, and then they go back in time to earth in its early stages. And then we learn the human race actually evolved from the crew of Voyager. It's the circle of life. I can hear Elton John right now...
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Old August 30 2013, 03:36 PM   #44
Praetor
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Re: Warp 10

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
It's also rather difficult to ignore the conceit that after warp technicians have been trying to reach warp 10 all over the galaxy for centuries, Paris figures it out on his own in a few weeks.

That would be like if I woke up tomorrow and suddenly cured cancer.

And ALSO rather difficult to ignore the fact that going warp 9.99999 doesn't turn you into lizards but does get you home in a few seconds.
Agreed overall. The only way it makes sense is if the special dilithium (combined with improved vehicle construction techniques) was the linchpin. And that's assuming that the effort was building on the "Great Experiment" of TSFS.
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Old August 30 2013, 11:59 PM   #45
teacake
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Re: Warp 10

dub wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
This is all highly experimental.

What if you got back to earth and the inoculation wore off unexpectedly during your big reunion?
Boom, and there's an arc for season 3. Very Xindi-like. A new race in the alpha quadrant: the Newt-toids. I bet Harry Kim's character would be better as a newt anyway. Or hey, maybe they accidentally slingshot around the sun on the way back to earth, and then they go back in time to earth in its early stages. And then we learn the human race actually evolved from the crew of Voyager. It's the circle of life. I can hear Elton John right now...
There's something familiar about that..
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