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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 31 2013, 01:00 AM   #16
austen_pierce
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Timo wrote: View Post
what if, after a struggle between two Stewarts, the winner is left ambiguous - and the only thing we know for sure is that the man left alive demonstrates his fundamental goodness, saves the day, and sits (back?) on the center chair of the E-E?
My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.
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Old August 31 2013, 01:21 AM   #17
Gojira
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Makarov wrote: View Post
I like Tom Hardy in everything he's done, and I'm excited to see him as Mad Max. But I can't help feeling that Nemesis might have been more fun if Patrick Stewart had played both roles. Especially after seeing a recent Sam Rockwell movie set in space.

Is there a reason they didn't go that route? What do you guys think?
I do not know why they didn't use Stewart as his own clone. The movie would have made soooooo much more sense.
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Old August 31 2013, 07:56 PM   #18
Makarov
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Gaith wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I can't imagine any possible way they could have salvaged the "Picard has an evil twin" story to my satisfaction.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../AllJustADream ?


Bottom line is, Stewart probably had no interest in putting in the extra time and effort needed to play Shinzon, and he certainly had veto power if that idea ever did come up in discussions.
You're probably right, I'll have to check out the nemesis special features to see if this is confirmed somewhere.

On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.
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Old August 31 2013, 08:19 PM   #19
sonak
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
what if, after a struggle between two Stewarts, the winner is left ambiguous - and the only thing we know for sure is that the man left alive demonstrates his fundamental goodness, saves the day, and sits (back?) on the center chair of the E-E?
My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.

hey, "sliders" did that with professor Arturo years before.
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Old August 31 2013, 08:20 PM   #20
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Makarov wrote: View Post
On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.
Except that having Spiner play Dr. Soong made no sense, because before "Datalore" nobody knew that Soong was Data's creator, and how could they have not known if he looked just like Soong?

Although that bit from "Datalore" never really made sense -- Soong was the guy famous for trying to make a positronic brain when everyone else said it was impossible, and Data had a positronic brain, so his origins should've been pretty self-evident. Still, actually giving Soong and Data the same face just made it more nonsensical that Data's origins were a mystery.

The other factor is that Noonien Soong is a Chinese name, so how did a guy who looks like Brent Spiner end up with it? Soong was going to be played by Keye Luke, but sadly he died just before "Brothers" went into production, which is why they decided to have Spiner play the role. But as impressive a job of acting, makeup, directing, and visual effects "Brothers" was, I'd have been happier if Luke had lived longer and been able to play Soong. It would've made a lot more sense in-universe.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:12 PM   #21
marksound
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Makarov wrote: View Post
On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.
Except that having Spiner play Dr. Soong made no sense, because before "Datalore" nobody knew that Soong was Data's creator, and how could they have not known if he looked just like Soong?

Although that bit from "Datalore" never really made sense -- Soong was the guy famous for trying to make a positronic brain when everyone else said it was impossible, and Data had a positronic brain, so his origins should've been pretty self-evident. Still, actually giving Soong and Data the same face just made it more nonsensical that Data's origins were a mystery.

The other factor is that Noonien Soong is a Chinese name, so how did a guy who looks like Brent Spiner end up with it? Soong was going to be played by Keye Luke, but sadly he died just before "Brothers" went into production, which is why they decided to have Spiner play the role. But as impressive a job of acting, makeup, directing, and visual effects "Brothers" was, I'd have been happier if Luke had lived longer and been able to play Soong. It would've made a lot more sense in-universe.
I'm reminded of an episode of ... I can't remember what it was now ... but the protagonists go to a fortune cookie factory and ask for the owner, who has a Chinese name. They are faced with a middle aged white man with a Russian accent who says he is the owner, and when questioned says he was adopted from a Russian orphanage by a Chinese couple.

Hey, it could happen.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:17 PM   #22
Christopher
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)
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Old August 31 2013, 09:25 PM   #23
marksound
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)
In the 22-24th century it could be more common than not.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:45 PM   #24
DWF
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)
Harry Kim is an American he might have some Korean ancestry and seeing as how his parents were naned John and Mary not to mention having an uncle named Jack and a cousin named Dennis, it's not far out for him to be named Harry.
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Old August 31 2013, 10:42 PM   #25
CorporalClegg
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

There's nothing odd about "Harry Kim" at all. I know one personally.

It's quite popular for Koreans who migrate to the US to give their children Western first names.
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Old September 1 2013, 02:21 AM   #26
austen_pierce
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

sonak wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
what if, after a struggle between two Stewarts, the winner is left ambiguous - and the only thing we know for sure is that the man left alive demonstrates his fundamental goodness, saves the day, and sits (back?) on the center chair of the E-E?
My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.

hey, "sliders" did that with professor Arturo years before.
I'm not familiar with Sliders. What was the fan response?
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Old September 1 2013, 02:52 AM   #27
Christopher
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
There's nothing odd about "Harry Kim" at all. I know one personally.
Which is kind of my point.
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Old September 1 2013, 03:11 AM   #28
Nerys Myk
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Makarov wrote: View Post
On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.
Except that having Spiner play Dr. Soong made no sense, because before "Datalore" nobody knew that Soong was Data's creator, and how could they have not known if he looked just like Soong?

Although that bit from "Datalore" never really made sense -- Soong was the guy famous for trying to make a positronic brain when everyone else said it was impossible, and Data had a positronic brain, so his origins should've been pretty self-evident. Still, actually giving Soong and Data the same face just made it more nonsensical that Data's origins were a mystery.

The other factor is that Noonien Soong is a Chinese name, so how did a guy who looks like Brent Spiner end up with it? Soong was going to be played by Keye Luke, but sadly he died just before "Brothers" went into production, which is why they decided to have Spiner play the role. But as impressive a job of acting, makeup, directing, and visual effects "Brothers" was, I'd have been happier if Luke had lived longer and been able to play Soong. It would've made a lot more sense in-universe.
Same way my cousin is named "Lim". His grandfather was Chinese. And his kids are even further removed from being Chinese even though they also have the name "Lim".
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Old September 1 2013, 03:51 AM   #29
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.
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Old September 1 2013, 04:03 AM   #30
sonak
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Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.

hey, "sliders" did that with professor Arturo years before.
I'm not familiar with Sliders. What was the fan response?

lots and lots of arguing to this day about which one it was that went with them.
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