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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 30 2013, 04:50 PM   #31
Timo
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Re: Transporters too Good

...Of course, it could also be that Khan never used a super-transporter to get to Klingon space. Such a thing was established by Marcus, but he was a scheming bastard. For all we know, Khan just beamed to an orbiting starship that Marcus had promised to him as an escape vehicle, only it delivered Khan to Qo'noS instead.

Khan seems well aware that Marcus has betrayed him from the get-go. Sure, he'd probably believe that of everybody automatically, but if Marcus marooned him on Klingon real estate, he'd have a pretty good excuse for knowing.

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Old August 30 2013, 05:11 PM   #32
Franklin
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Re: Transporters too Good

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
Risk. Who knows how damn finicky or dangerous the thing is normally. We never saw it used in a normal situation: Kirk and Scotty was a last ditch desperation move; Khan was a nutjob super genius.
That, and we've also seen them work in only one direction. It may be a "Hotel California" situation: you can beam there any time you like, but you can never leave.

Of course in reality, just like warp drive and everything else, transporters work at the needs of the story.

However, having been reminded that trans-warp beaming was mentioned in TNG means there's some continuity here in the Treks. Spock Prime "contaminated" this timeline with it in ST09 by giving Scotty's equation to him years, if not decades before he really discovered it himself. It wasn't just invented by Orci and Kurtzman as a plot device to get Kirk and Scotty onto the Enterprise and Khan to Kronos.
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Old August 30 2013, 06:10 PM   #33
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Transporters too Good

Bry_Sinclair wrote:
Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
You say "they" like everyone can do it. Scotty's formula was confiscated by Section 31, and I doubt they're gonna post it online for all to see.
Timo wrote: View Post
...Of course, it could also be that Khan never used a super-transporter to get to Klingon space. Such a thing was established by Marcus, but he was a scheming bastard. For all we know, Khan just beamed to an orbiting starship that Marcus had promised to him as an escape vehicle, only it delivered Khan to Qo'noS instead.
No, it was Scotty who found the transwarp beaming device in the wreckage of Khan's jumpship and retrieved the co-ordinates.
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Old August 30 2013, 06:21 PM   #34
Jaro Stun
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Re: Transporters too Good

this new timeline is screwed up beyond any repair by massive influx of future technology from 26-31st centuries, which started in the Enterprise (22nd C) times due to temporal cold war.

Transwarp transporter, obviously slipstream/transwarp engines on starships (or Xindi vortices), Borg ship components, where does it end?

Braxton and his team should go in and fix this asap. Until they do, this is the rationale I need and use to make sense of it lol. It all started with Enterprise launching prematurely, over a 100 years ago...
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Old August 30 2013, 07:17 PM   #35
M'Sharak
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Re: Transporters too Good

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
They don't, of course. No one will ever need starships again, so put your mind at rest on that account. Scrapping of all existing starships shall commence forthwith. (Well, in the 23rd century it will. Not right this instant.)

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Old August 30 2013, 07:18 PM   #36
CorporalClegg
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Re: Transporters too Good

Jaro Stun wrote: View Post
this new timeline is screwed up beyond any repair by massive influx of future technology from 26-31st centuries, which started in the Enterprise (22nd C) times due to temporal cold war.

Transwarp transporter, obviously slipstream/transwarp engines on starships (or Xindi vortices), Borg ship components, where does it end?

Braxton and his team should go in and fix this asap. Until they do, this is the rationale I need and use to make sense of it lol. It all started with Enterprise launching prematurely, over a 100 years ago...
Err. Archer Enterprise isn't part of the "new" timeline.
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Old August 30 2013, 07:24 PM   #37
Timo
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Re: Transporters too Good

No, it was Scotty who found the transwarp beaming device in the wreckage of Khan's jumpship and retrieved the co-ordinates.
And that's exactly what I mean. Khan's attack on Starfleet brass may have been "genuine", that is, catching even Marcus by surprise - but OTOH it fits perfectly with the basic plans of Marcus and thus may have been carefully engineered, Godfather III style, to look as if Khan tried to kill Marcus, too. If so, Khan's escape must have been jointly planned as well, and could easily involve false clues, planted by Marcus, that would send our heroes on a mission that would start a war.

Err. Archer Enterprise isn't part of the "new" timeline.
Sure is. We saw her on the tabletop of Admiral Marcus!

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Old August 30 2013, 07:32 PM   #38
Chemahkuu
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Re: Transporters too Good

As has been pointed out before, the shuttle Scotty used to beam them in the '09 movie contained the code was left behind.

Scotty committed it to memory and used it once to beam them to the Narada, possibly not having the Enterprise computers record the procedure.

In Into Darkness we find out from Scotty that the transwarp beaming technology was confiscated entirely by Section 31, the shuttle, the Enterprise logs etc and made Khans prototype from it in the Kelvin building.

The building's systems were hacked, damaging all data, then blown to pieces for good measure, Khan burned out the only working unit when he beamed away.

The only surviving remnant of the technology is Scotty's memory, and after what happened I doubt he'll ever use it again.
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Old August 30 2013, 07:44 PM   #39
SeerSGB
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Re: Transporters too Good

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Jaro Stun wrote: View Post
this new timeline is screwed up beyond any repair by massive influx of future technology from 26-31st centuries, which started in the Enterprise (22nd C) times due to temporal cold war.

Transwarp transporter, obviously slipstream/transwarp engines on starships (or Xindi vortices), Borg ship components, where does it end?

Braxton and his team should go in and fix this asap. Until they do, this is the rationale I need and use to make sense of it lol. It all started with Enterprise launching prematurely, over a 100 years ago...
Err. Archer Enterprise isn't part of the "new" timeline.
Enterprise is the only part of the new timeline that is canon to both of the timelines.
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Old August 30 2013, 07:57 PM   #40
Timo
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Re: Transporters too Good

In Into Darkness we find out from Scotty that the transwarp beaming technology was confiscated entirely by Section 31
Umm, no, we don't.

We learn it was confiscated by Section 31. Nothing about "entirely" there. And as far as we can tell, it may have been confiscated by two dozen other organizations as well.

After just two movies, we don't know how paranoid or ruthless this version of Starfleet is with information, and whether S31 is anything exceptional to begin with. Until we're told more, we have no good reason to think transwarp beaming secrets would be treated at any specific level of secrecy; we can just speculate they are at the upper tiers of military secrets, due to them being future technology. Them being held inside one cranium only isn't a particularly likely scenario.

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Old August 30 2013, 09:16 PM   #41
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Re: Transporters too Good

Just thinking of the possible military applications of transwarp beaming, i.e., surprise attacks, no boundaries to attacks, quick assassination, it wouldn't be hard to believe Section 31 "confiscated" the equation.....
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Old August 30 2013, 10:06 PM   #42
CorporalClegg
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Re: Transporters too Good

Timo wrote: View Post
Err. Archer Enterprise isn't part of the "new" timeline.
Sure is. We saw her on the tabletop of Admiral Marcus!
Timo Saloniemi
Oops. There was supposed to be an "exclusively" in there somewhere.

He was implying that Enterprise was strictly part of nuverse. He started with "This new time line..." Archer's crew is really a part of the "Star Trek Verse."
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Old August 31 2013, 03:33 PM   #43
Set Harth
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Re: Transporters too Good

Timo wrote: View Post
...Of course, it could also be that Khan never used a super-transporter to get to Klingon space. Such a thing was established by Marcus, but he was a scheming bastard. For all we know, Khan just beamed to an orbiting starship that Marcus had promised to him as an escape vehicle, only it delivered Khan to Qo'noS instead.
The film's editing implies otherwise.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:57 PM   #44
austen_pierce
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Re: Transporters too Good

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Jaro Stun wrote: View Post
this new timeline is screwed up beyond any repair by massive influx of future technology from 26-31st centuries, which started in the Enterprise (22nd C) times due to temporal cold war.

Transwarp transporter, obviously slipstream/transwarp engines on starships (or Xindi vortices), Borg ship components, where does it end?

Braxton and his team should go in and fix this asap. Until they do, this is the rationale I need and use to make sense of it lol. It all started with Enterprise launching prematurely, over a 100 years ago...
Err. Archer Enterprise isn't part of the "new" timeline.
Enterprise is the only part of the new timeline that is canon to both of the timelines.
Unfortunately.

Enterprise had so much potential, crippled by bad writing. Those eps only got interesting in season four, when they had nothing to lose and decided to pull out all the stops with eps like In A Mirror Darkly, the Augment multi parter, and the Terra Prime series.

Sorry, mods, I know I'm off topic.
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Old September 2 2013, 11:15 AM   #45
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Transporters too Good

Franklin wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
Risk. Who knows how damn finicky or dangerous the thing is normally. We never saw it used in a normal situation: Kirk and Scotty was a last ditch desperation move; Khan was a nutjob super genius.
That, and we've also seen them work in only one direction. It may be a "Hotel California" situation: you can beam there any time you like, but you can never leave.
All you have to do is to beam out either a pre-assembled transporter pad, or all the parts and an engineering crew to assemble it and you have a means of returning or going even further.

It'd be like a system of Star(Trek)gates.
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