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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old January 3 2014, 07:27 PM   #1
Hawkeye_90
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inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

I am confused between the two shows, because Dax was very clear that each Dax was it's own person not the same as the Dax before him, yet in TNG episode the host it seems like the riker host is Odon and not somebody else?
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Old January 3 2014, 07:36 PM   #2
trekker670
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

That's just the writers' evolution of the aliens. I'd imagine that developing a long-standing recurring alien character and culture that is interesting is different than a one-off, single-use species.

For example:
Klingons: TOS vs Movies vs TNG forward
Andorians: TOS vs ENT
Bajoran: TNG vs DS9
Ferengi: TNG vs DS9
Cardassians: TNG vs DS9
Trill: TNG vs DS9

These are species that started out being used once or only a handful of times, but then their backstory and cultures developed (changed, expanded, etc.) to give them a unique identity, add more dimensions, and keep the species interesting to viewers on a long-term basis.
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Old January 3 2014, 07:46 PM   #3
GotNoRice
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

Well there were many situations on DS9 where a Trill with a new host maintains connections and bonds created by the previous host+symbiont, such as Sisko continuing to call Dax "Old Man", etc. It clearly does retain some identity.
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Old January 3 2014, 08:21 PM   #4
Savage Dragon
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

There were physical differences between the Trill hosts in TNG and DS9. Maybe the host's physiology plays a part in how dominant the symbiont is. Assuming of course there is more than one host race.
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Old January 3 2014, 08:23 PM   #5
Hawkeye_90
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

Agreed but J. Dax was not exactly the same as the last Dax, but it appears in TNG that this is the case, but i will except evolution of the character, that makes sense.
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Old January 3 2014, 08:24 PM   #6
JirinPanthosa
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

If they had gone with the Trills from TNG, too many fans would have gone "Uhh, wait, isn't this slavery?"

In a one-off episode appearance, the fans can overlook it or call it a "We can't interfere in their culture" thing. As a main character, not so easy.

I also think there are unaddressed moral issues along those lines with the way Ezri became joined. Sure, she had a choice, but then she would have forever been known as the woman who selfishly let the legendary Dax symbiote perish. So she didn't really have a choice.
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Old January 3 2014, 08:28 PM   #7
desfem79
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

A subspecies (of both the humanoid and the worm)?
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Old January 3 2014, 08:34 PM   #8
trekker670
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

I could be mis-remembering, but I recall there was a line of dialog that suggested that since Riker wasn't a trill host, there was more of a symbiotic relationship (granted, to a lesser extent than seen in DS9) rather than the almost parasitic relationship depicted in Trills in this episode.

Overall, I think there are probably more differences than there are similarities between the Trill seen in TNG and those seen in DS9: physical appearance, relationship between symbiant and host, ability to be transported, etc.

Edit: JirinPanthosa and desfem79 both make very good points.
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Old January 4 2014, 08:18 AM   #9
WarpCore
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

Odan was an Ambassador... a diplomat... essentially a politician. Therefore, everything he said was a lie. That character trait was so strong even that it caused Riker to temporarily become a pathological liar as well. Retcon not needed.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:19 PM   #10
The Old Mixer
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

There's also the fact that in TNG, the true nature of the Trill was a secret, whereas we were given the impression that Sisko had always known about Curzon's nature. In any backstory involving Dax's previous lives or other Trill, no effort was made to maintain that their true nature had been a secret until a few years ago.
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Old January 7 2014, 10:51 AM   #11
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

What happened with Riker could be said to be the result of him being an alien, untrained and unprepared for Joining. The first Odan host was probably chose because he too was also trained in diplomacy and negotiations, which was what the Symbionts strengths were.

When it comes to the transporters, that could be something that several Joined Trill experience, due to the delicate balance. Verod told Sisko that shooting him on stun could be very harmful, whilst Dax said that Joined Trill had bad reactions to insect bites. So they obviously have a delicate biology.

As for their appearance, I generally retcon the TNG look in favour of DS9 as it is the better established.
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Old January 7 2014, 11:52 PM   #12
jimbotron
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Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

I'm glad they changed the Trill for DS9. For one thing, the alien makeup was ugly. They quickly realized this when applying that makeup to Terry Farrell. They remembered the Kriosian makeup from The Perfect Mate, and just went with that instead.

But even if you can explain away the Riker/Odan thing, TNG's idea of the Trill is to hide the nature of the Trill, since Odan pretended that the previous host was the current host's father. Plus Odan has no qualms about maintaining relationships no matter what host he is using. DS9 struck a better balance of restricting that, though even that was broken from time to time.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:00 AM   #13
The Old Mixer
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

The makeup change also allowed for more distinctive looks between the alien regulars, as casual viewers might not have gotten that somebody in the old Trill makeup wasn't, say, a Bajoran.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:12 AM   #14
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

I think Odan was just an insensitive jackass. Not just because he hid his true nature, but also that he expected Beverly to love him no matter what host the Odan symbiont had.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:15 AM   #15
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Re: inconsistency with trills between ds9 and TNG

That's right! Hurting Bev is a big "no-no."
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