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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 27 2013, 11:35 AM   #16
lurok
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Nemesis has one or two really good things in it. But the cast were visibly tired. And wasted.
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Old August 27 2013, 12:39 PM   #17
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Outside of the English speaking countries ST tended to underpeform at the box office. And in the English speaking countries ST was competing agains the likes of The Two Towers.
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Old August 27 2013, 12:42 PM   #18
austen_pierce
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

lurok wrote: View Post
Nemesis has one or two really good things in it. But the cast were visibly tired. And wasted.
I agree, and this is why I find it so hard simply to write this movie off. The Scimitar and the final battles are very well done, as are the new Romulan ships.

I disliked B4, BUT liked the rescue sequence when Data impersonated him.

I liked seeing Romulus, but we saw so few actual Romulans, it was obvious that we were just looking at a few actors on a low budget set.

Had the Romulans displayed more loyalty to Shinzon throughout the film, the dramatic effect of the two commanders siding with Picard would have been better.

On the other hand, the "text message" from Picard to navigation jolted me right out of the film.

There are just so many woulda, coulda, shoulda moments in this film. It's so close to being good, but doesn't quite get there.
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Old August 27 2013, 03:15 PM   #19
ssosmcin
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
How would they know if a Star Trek film was decent or not.... before they'd seen it?
Word of mouth? Just because you or I will buy a ticket sight unseen to a Trek movie doesn't mean general audiences are in the same habit.

But in Nemesis case, the script had been leaked early and people were bitching and moaning about it six months before it premiered.

I think that has more to do with the failure than any competition. That plus franchise fatigue because not even fans came out opening weekend. No Star Trek movie has opened that badly, not even TFF, which had a big opening and then dropped fast. At the same time, many Trek fans may not have seen the leaked script (not everyone wants spoilers). So i put it down to fatigue and general lack of interest. Nobody cared. Even before people could find out of it sucked or not, nobody was interested anymore.

Except me, because I liked the film a lot and saw it a bunch of times. You're welcome, Rick Berman.
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Old August 27 2013, 05:04 PM   #20
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post

Except me, because I liked the film a lot and saw it a bunch of times. You're welcome, Rick Berman.
It's funny, I saw it once in the theater and didn't care for it. Bought the DVD on day one and it still did nothing for me.

But looking back on TNG's movie run, it is definitely the best of the bunch (which isn't saying much). I think there were points where it tried to be more than just another Trek movie and even though those attempts failed in spectacular fashion, I appreciate that they made the attempt.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:13 PM   #21
Hober Mallow
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

BillJ wrote: View Post
It's funny, I saw it once in the theater and didn't care for it. Bought the DVD on day one and it still did nothing for me.
I never got around to seeing it in the theater. It's the only trek film since TUC I didn't see on the big screen. I eventually got around to seeing it on DVD. It nearly bored me to death and I haven't watched it since. Even Data's death had absolutely no emotional impact on me.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:27 PM   #22
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I recently watched it for the first time since I saw it in theaters. Surprisingly, I found it significantly better than I did the first time. Which is to say, I still didn't think it was very good.

The thing that stood out the most was how low-budget it felt. And not low-budget in a TFF way, because at least TFF had the scope and grandeur of a feature film. Everything in NEM was claustrophobic and cramped.

The sets all felt like TV sets. The Romulan senate, for example, was not the ominously enormous parliament one would expect of an alien planet but a couple dozen chairs on choir risers.

It was obvious all the Enterprise sets had been made smaller from what they had been in the previous two films.

The big complaint about GEN and INS has always been the plots felt like TV episodes, but NEM looked the part, which is far more damning.
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Old August 27 2013, 07:04 PM   #23
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I always get the feeling that Paramount intentionally let this film run into the ground to get rid of TNG in the films. Berman himself said in an interview that TPTB didn't want the TNG crew anymore.
I think you're close. I think Nemesis was allowed to fail, not to get rid of TNG, per se, but to get Berman out of the films. The studio couldn't get rid of Berman -- he had a contract -- but they didn't have to greenlight the films he had in development. Eventually, the clock ran out on Berman's contract, and shortly thereafter Paramount made the deal with Bad Robot.
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Old August 27 2013, 07:11 PM   #24
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
The thing that stood out the most was how low-budget it felt. And not low-budget in a TFF way, because at least TFF had the scope and grandeur of a feature film. Everything in NEM was claustrophobic and cramped.

The sets all felt like TV sets. The Romulan senate, for example, was not the ominously enormous parliament one would expect of an alien planet but a couple dozen chairs on choir risers.
I too was also very disappointed in how small the Romulan senate was in Nemesis. It made the movie feel the opposite of epic.
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Old August 27 2013, 07:26 PM   #25
Hober Mallow
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Romulan_spy wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
The thing that stood out the most was how low-budget it felt. And not low-budget in a TFF way, because at least TFF had the scope and grandeur of a feature film. Everything in NEM was claustrophobic and cramped.

The sets all felt like TV sets. The Romulan senate, for example, was not the ominously enormous parliament one would expect of an alien planet but a couple dozen chairs on choir risers.
I too was also very disappointed in how small the Romulan senate was in Nemesis. It made the movie feel the opposite of epic.
None of that would have bothered me had we gotten a decent story. That it took them four years to come up with "Picard has an evil twin" is mind-boggling. But wait, we need a b-story. Okay how about... Data has a twin, too! Christ...
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Old August 27 2013, 07:35 PM   #26
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Romulan_spy wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
The thing that stood out the most was how low-budget it felt. And not low-budget in a TFF way, because at least TFF had the scope and grandeur of a feature film. Everything in NEM was claustrophobic and cramped.

The sets all felt like TV sets. The Romulan senate, for example, was not the ominously enormous parliament one would expect of an alien planet but a couple dozen chairs on choir risers.
I too was also very disappointed in how small the Romulan senate was in Nemesis. It made the movie feel the opposite of epic.
It felt very straight to DVD or TV-movie in quality, for me. The only two parts I like in the movie is just before the main battle when the Enterprise crew is breaking out sidearms and getting the ship ready for the fight--felt like the "run out the guns" sequence from TWOK; The battle after the Romulans showed up, which was visually impressive even though the bits with the actors were pretty bad.

One thing that pissed me right off with the movie is the Troi Psychic rape scene. How many more times were they going to go that route with her? First the series, now the movie, couldn't they have cooked up some other threat for her?
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Old August 27 2013, 11:46 PM   #27
Pondwater
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Nope. It got beat out by a Jennifer Lopez movie.
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Old August 28 2013, 02:22 AM   #28
austen_pierce
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Romulan_spy wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
The thing that stood out the most was how low-budget it felt. And not low-budget in a TFF way, because at least TFF had the scope and grandeur of a feature film. Everything in NEM was claustrophobic and cramped.

The sets all felt like TV sets. The Romulan senate, for example, was not the ominously enormous parliament one would expect of an alien planet but a couple dozen chairs on choir risers.
I too was also very disappointed in how small the Romulan senate was in Nemesis. It made the movie feel the opposite of epic.
It felt very straight to DVD or TV-movie in quality, for me. The only two parts I like in the movie is just before the main battle when the Enterprise crew is breaking out sidearms and getting the ship ready for the fight--felt like the "run out the guns" sequence from TWOK; The battle after the Romulans showed up, which was visually impressive even though the bits with the actors were pretty bad.

One thing that pissed me right off with the movie is the Troi Psychic rape scene. How many more times were they going to go that route with her? First the series, now the movie, couldn't they have cooked up some other threat for her?
Yes, that was painful, but when Troi guides Worf's hand for the 'empathic' Quantum torpedo lock, THAT worked. In fact that was one of the best TNG movie moments.
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Old August 28 2013, 02:39 AM   #29
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I think if anything, LOTR fans cross over with Star Trek fans. The idea that someone would say "Gee, I will only see either a Star Trek Movie OR a LOTR movie," doesn't hold water. Fans of both will see both, especially if they are good movies.

Bottom line: Nemesis failed because it wasn't that good a movie. Once word of mouth got out, it killed it. Not to mention, the script was leaked a few months before it was released and a lot of fans were so upset by what they read, they stayed home.

Star Trek at that time was a niche market. They should have catered to long time fans, especially if the intent was that it was to be the last TNG film, and focused on the writing. Instead, it tried to be something for everyone, which pleased no one.
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Old August 28 2013, 02:58 AM   #30
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Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I don't think it would have helped much on its own. Nemesis wasn't great and it followed Insurrection, the most boring Trek film of them all. When you combine that with the general perception that Trek had gone stale, even among long time some fans (e.g. myself), it wasn't a recipe for success.
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