RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,959
Posts: 5,391,521
Members: 24,722
Currently online: 416
Newest member: Jadakiss

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 26 2013, 12:09 AM   #1
JT Perfecthair
Lieutenant
 
JT Perfecthair's Avatar
 
Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

My example is that I believe Kirk would get an earful over his resolution to the Apollo situation.

Once they figured out the temple was the source of his power, Spock could have destroyed it at any time. There was no rush to force Apollo's hand and resolve the encounter that quickly, I think that upper echelons would feel that contact with an actual Greek god was worth gathering a few laurel wreathes as part of a longer term operation.

The writers of course are constrained by the episodic nature of the show, that each week had its own story and resolution, so they really had no alternative but to write it just as it was.
JT Perfecthair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 12:25 AM   #2
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

I disagree. Kirk and his crew were being held against their will. And Apollo had shown little hesitation in injuring or even killing someone if they opposed him. Apollo didn't openly invite them down for a friendly chat. He bullied them into acquiescing to his demands.

Apollo would only talk on his terms which involved the total capitulation of Kirk and his crew and the destruction of the Enterprise and thereby stranding them planetside.

Apollo's abilities had long corrupted him into behaving like a spoiled brat. He would be considerate to others only on his terms and not because he had any genuine consideration for others.

I rather liked how the fan production "Pilgrim Of Eternity" picks up on that wherein when Apollo is rendered powerless and essentially mortal he starts behaving with more deference and consideration because he can't bully anyone into doing anything they don't want to do anymore. If he had approached the Enterprise crew in that manner originally he could indeed have been a fount of historical information and Kirk and company would have been only too happy to talk with him.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 01:35 AM   #3
CommishSleer
Fleet Captain
 
CommishSleer's Avatar
 
Location: Way back of nowhere
View CommishSleer's Twitter Profile
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

In restrospect he dealt with the Khan situation badly.

They were probably cranky for a while with Kirk over the Amok Time thing. Though we all knew he did the right thing.

Kirk wasn't exactly a success in "A Private Little War" but what could he do, Starfleet obviously sent him there
CommishSleer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 02:16 AM   #4
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

NBC apparently thought he did.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 03:34 AM   #5
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

A Private Little War and Errand of Mercy weren't exactly wins.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 03:48 AM   #6
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
A Private Little War and Errand of Mercy weren't exactly wins.
With "Errand Of Mercy" it's a matter of perspective. Kirk was ordered to try keeping Organia out of Klingon hands. Well, that did happen but not in any way anyone could have imagined. Additionally the Organians put a stop to the war the Federation didn't want, but again in no way anyone could have envisioned. It's not a win in the usual sense, but it's not a loss either at least from the Federation's perspective. From the Klingon perspective it's a loss because (if Kor is any example) they were only to happy to fight for whatever they might get out of it.

It also implies both parties would have to go back to the negotiating table to continue arguing about the disputed areas. The Organian Treaty states any disputed planet would go to the side who could prove they could develop it most effectively. Okay, but what does that really mean? Develop it most effectively for who? Either side could develop a planet effectively for themselves at least given there are no inhabitants already there. But if there are inhabitants---such as on Neral in "A Private Little War"---then how is development defined and measured? Evidently the Federation preferred a "hands off" approach in keeping with their non-interference policy, the idea being the native inhabitants could develop themselves best on their own. The Klingons obviously had a more "hands on" notion to fit an evolutionary pattern they favoured: survival of the fittest and most aggressive. Either side has a case within context of their own principles so how is it decided which one is right?

One can argue the Klingons were sabotaging the Federation approach, but Kirk in response sabotaged the Klingon method. The natives are caught in the middle not really of their own making. I do get a sense the Klingons would get bored rather quickly of this game of keeping a level playing field on a backwater planet. Seems to me they used their "hands on" approach with the natives only because they were compelled to by treaty, otherwise they'd have just marched in just as they had intended to do on Organia. I suppose it might only matter if the Klingons really want that planet in that sector.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 06:12 AM   #7
Push The Button
Captain
 
Push The Button's Avatar
 
Location: Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
In restrospect he dealt with the Khan situation badly.
Why does Kirk have to shoulder all of the blame for what happened to Khan and his people? Reports and logs were filed with Starfleet Command, it wasn't like Kirk was the only one that knew they were left on Ceti Alpha 5 with a limited amount of supplies. Why was it his sole responsibility to check on their progress? Spock, McCoy, and about 400 other Enterprise crew also knew what happened, none of them ever were curious enough to follow up and ask a few questions for themselves?

There isn't some Federation department or bureau that tracks and monitors colonies and settlements? And over the course of 15 years, no other ship ever visited that system and noticed that one of it's planets was missing? There was no mention of Khan or the Botany Bay in the database entry for Ceti Alpha 5, or vice-versa?
__________________
Let's make sure history never forgets...
the name...
Enterprise
Push The Button is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 06:22 AM   #8
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Terrel didn't know. Marcus didn't know. No ship was sent to check up on them. Sounds to me Kirk managed to keep this out of the official records.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 08:36 AM   #9
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Terrel didn't know. Marcus didn't know. No ship was sent to check up on them. Sounds to me Kirk managed to keep this out of the official records.
Again you're making an assumption. Hostile people tried to forcibly hijack his ship. You don't think that was logged? Hell, we actually hear Kirk's log entries about the whole thing. No way he hid that baby. Starfleet could just as easily said, "Not your problem anymore, Kirk. We"ll deal with it." Maybe Starfleet is the one who hushes it up and keeps it out of the records.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 12:06 PM   #10
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Terrel didn't know. Marcus didn't know. No ship was sent to check up on them. Sounds to me Kirk managed to keep this out of the official records.
Again you're making an assumption. Hostile people tried to forcibly hijack his ship. You don't think that was logged? Hell, we actually hear Kirk's log entries about the whole thing. No way he hid that baby. Starfleet could just as easily said, "Not your problem anymore, Kirk. We"ll deal with it." Maybe Starfleet is the one who hushes it up and keeps it out of the records.
Add to that the fact he had to explain what happened to the ships historian.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 12:20 PM   #11
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Well given the Federations ban on gentic engineering, it seems plausable that they would want to keep queit about the fact that 70 or so genetical engineered super-humans are living on a planet in the Ceti-Alpha system.

For all weknow Terrell didn't bother to check the library computer about the Ceti-Alpha system. And the Reliant was just checking systems that were close to Regula.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 01:02 PM   #12
CommishSleer
Fleet Captain
 
CommishSleer's Avatar
 
Location: Way back of nowhere
View CommishSleer's Twitter Profile
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Terrel didn't know. Marcus didn't know. No ship was sent to check up on them. Sounds to me Kirk managed to keep this out of the official records.
Again you're making an assumption. Hostile people tried to forcibly hijack his ship. You don't think that was logged? Hell, we actually hear Kirk's log entries about the whole thing. No way he hid that baby. Starfleet could just as easily said, "Not your problem anymore, Kirk. We"ll deal with it." Maybe Starfleet is the one who hushes it up and keeps it out of the records.
I just assumed that Kirk didn't report Khan and his people to Starfleet.
I never thought otherwise until now. LOL.

I also thought he never reported meeting Cochrane and whatever happened to Nancy Hedford.
CommishSleer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 01:27 PM   #13
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Of course Kirk did report it to Starfleet. But what do you expect Starfleet to do? "Hey fellas, there is this 300-year-old genetically engineered tyrant on that planet. All of you secret admirers of his regime, go find him and take him home." No, they made the whole incident classified.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 01:42 PM   #14
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

I also thought he never reported meeting Cochrane and whatever happened to Nancy Hedford.
Indeed - the title of this thread should perhaps be "Do you think Starfleet would have felt Kirk had failed any of the missions if Kirk actually told them the truth about those?"...

Kirk lies to his superiors in the very first episode already, refusing to tell Starfleet the truth about the demise of Gary Mitchell and Elizabeth Dehner. Apparently, it isn't too difficult to erase or edit logs after the fact, either - and if the logs don't involve incidents of note, nobody will go through those "Court Martial" style, supposedly-difficult-to-forge flight recorder tapes and find out what really happened.

Actually, forging those tapes may also be simpler than we think. It was said in "Court Martial" that editing could be done only by Kirk, Spock, and Finney. Now, the latter two are specialists - but Kirk is a generalist, so forging of tapes should not be a "skill" issue since he presumably would lack the skill. It's more probably an "access" or "authority" issue, and if Kirk does have the access and the authority, then no adventure is safe from his creative reinterpretation.

As pointed out above, Kirk has obfuscated the deaths of several people quite explicitly. The disappearance of Marla McGivers could well be taken as an implicit fraud, then.

"Hey fellas, there is this 300-year-old genetically engineered tyrant on that planet. All of you secret admirers of his regime, go find him and take him home."
This would imply that Khan admirers are a disliked minority. But Starfleet apparently consists almost exclusively of neo-Khanists, unless Kirk's own ship for some strange reason was an exception to the rule. If Kirk reported about Khan's survival, Starfleet would probably send the Federation Flagship and beam down an infrared carpet so that Khan could start his triumphant return with suitable pomp.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 02:32 PM   #15
Nine of Four
Commander
 
Nine of Four's Avatar
 
Location: On a Borg Cube in the Delta Quadrant
Re: Do you think Starfleet felt Kirk had failed any of the missions?

Melakon wrote: View Post
NBC apparently thought he did.
Tru dat.

-
Nine of Four is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.